Love Oliver Twist but how safe is it in terms of harm reduction?

[Ansel]

I would rather use smokeless than start smoking again, I don't want the respiratory problems that come with smoking. Also I don't use anywhere near as many snus portions, or cuts/bites than I did cigarettes, so I would imagine that my current TSNA levels are much lower now than when I was smoking. 5 portions a day vs 30 tabs a day, snus wins every day of the week.

You only use 5 portions a day!? I get through half a can.

This is the study on PAHs and applies to smokeless tobacco:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19860436

[GoVegan]

Everything causes cancer and everything is safer than smoking. Aren't pahs present in a lot of stuff like French fries?

[Skell18]

You only use 5 portions a day!? I get through half a can.

This is the study on PAHs and applies to smokeless tobacco:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19860436

Yup, I get a headache if I use any more, I have the odd pinch of snuff throughout the day too. Was a pattern I got into at work, in 12 months I went for 30 - 40 tabs a day to no more than 5 - 10, kept it up with snus, I can go a few days without using any snus but then really feel the need for one.

That study was done on dip not snus or OTs etc so it would be interesting to see one on snus. Especially since snus is pasteurized I would imagine the outcome may be different in terms of levels, but I don't know. Also its from 2010 hasn't it been addressed since?

Main point is mate, pop a skruf stark in and forget about it, life is waaaay too short, I would be more concerned if I was still smoking and on what that we know does to people.

[lxskllr]

You only use 5 portions a day!? I get through half a can.

This is the study on PAHs and applies to smokeless tobacco:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19860436

I just glossed over the paper. It's a bit heavy for me atm. It seems to concentrate mainly on American dip which almost exclusively uses flue cured tobacco. That would explain the presence of PAHs. I'll go over it a bit more thoroughly later. One thing to keep in mind is many things have carcinogens, but aren't put under the microscope tobacco is. I'm not saying the study should be disregarded, but perspective needs to be kept. Just because carcinogens are present, it doesn't mean they're likely to cause cancer. I wonder how many PAHs are inhaled during a 30 minute walk in a city?

[Skell18]

I just glossed over the paper. It's a bit heavy for me atm. It seems to concentrate mainly on American dip which almost exclusively uses flue cured tobacco. That would explain the presence of PAHs. I'll go over it a bit more thoroughly later. One thing to keep in mind is many things have carcinogens, but aren't put under the microscope tobacco is. I'm not saying the study should be disregarded, but perspective needs to be kept. Just because carcinogens are present, it doesn't mean they're likely to cause cancer. I wonder how many PAHs are inhaled during a 30 minute walk in a city?

Exactly my point. Just forget about it and get naked

[Ansel]

haha okay thanks guys

[chainsnuser]

The whole TSNA- or PAH-talk is pure fear-mongering. I wouldn't worry a single minute about it.

Truth is that nobody knows what exactly causes the high likehood for smokers to get lung cancer. To blame the TSNA or PAH are just hypotheses of some researchers. While it could be true for smoking it is long disproven that TSNAs/PAHs have any negative effect when smokeless tobacco is used. Just read one of the newer studies. Even the studies that are financed by the anti-tobacco-nazis mostly show the same - accurate statistics about the harmlessness of smokeless tobacco framed in hysterical/psychotic comments about the "devilishness" of the tobacco-plant and the "sinful life" of tobacco "addicts". Yeah, it's the year 2012, but the writings of the anti-tobacco-professionals sound more like 1312 to me.

The NA or PAH in tobacco are no different from those in other foods, so my estimation is, that it is as about as "harmful" to use one piece of chewing tobacco as it is "harmful" to eat one bite of barbecue-meat.

I'm also more concerned about the sugar. While anti-tobacco propaganda is 5% truth and 95% nonsense, the dental recommendations to be careful with sugary foods really have a meaning. If there was a sugarfree brand of chewing tobacco available, I would use more Kautabak than I do.

Cheers!

[Skell18]

The whole TSNA- or PAH-talk is pure fear-mongering. I wouldn't worry a single minute about it.

Truth is that nobody knows what exactly causes the high likehood for smokers to get lung cancer. To blame the TSNA or PAH are just hypotheses of some researchers. While it could be true for smoking it is long disproven that TSNAs/PAHs have any negative effect when smokeless tobacco is used. Just read one of the newer studies. Even the studies that are financed by the anti-tobacco-nazis mostly show the same - accurate statistics about the harmlessness of smokeless tobacco framed in hysterical/psychotic comments about the "devilishness" of the tobacco-plant and the "sinful life" of tobacco "addicts". Yeah, it's the year 2012, but the writings of the anti-tobacco-professionals sound more like 1312 to me.

The NA or PAH in tobacco are no different from those in other foods, so my estimation is, that it is as about as "harmful" to use one piece of chewing tobacco as it is "harmful" to eat one bite of barbecue-meat.

I'm also more concerned about the sugar. While anti-tobacco propaganda is 5% truth and 95% nonsense, the dental recommendations to be careful with sugary foods really have a meaning. If there was a sugarfree brand of chewing tobacco available, I would use more Kautabak than I do.

Cheers!

Totally off topic (but I agree with your post for the record) am off to Cologne in a few weeks, any good tobacco shops I should go to that you know of? (although I am aware its prob like asking me of any good ones In Edinburgh given the distance between Dort and Col lol).

[chainsnuser]

Yes, unfortunately I have no idea about tobacco-shops in Cologne.

But here's a site that is maintained by tobacco connoisseurs:
http://www.daft.de/pmwiki.php/Laeden/Laeden

The same in google's translator:
http://translate.google.de/translate...Laeden&act=url

Scroll down to the letter K for Köln/Cologne!

Cheers!

[Skell18]

Yes, unfortunately I have no idea about tobacco-shops in Cologne.

But here's a site that is maintained by tobacco connoisseurs:
http://www.daft.de/pmwiki.php/Laeden/Laeden

The same in google's translator:
http://translate.google.de/translate...Laeden&act=url

Scroll down to the letter K for Köln/Cologne!

Cheers!

Danke

[halocog]

Not to thread jack or anything, but can Oliver Twist be shipped to the US? And if so, where is the cheapest place to order from?

[Skell18]

Not to thread jack or anything, but can Oliver Twist be shipped to the US? And if so, where is the cheapest place to order from?

Would imagine they can, snus2 sells them or find a UK tobacco shop that ships to the US, the OT website has a store locator too Or if you really want some PM me and I can sort you out.

[Ansel]

I'm also more concerned about the sugar. While anti-tobacco propaganda is 5% truth and 95% nonsense, the dental recommendations to be careful with sugary foods really have a meaning. If there was a sugarfree brand of chewing tobacco available, I would use more Kautabak than I do.

Cheers!

Thank you, oh and by the way Picanell don't taste like they have sugar in.

[Skell18]

www.lilbrown.com halocog sells them in the states and ships all over the US

[stubby2]

You only use 5 portions a day!? I get through half a can.

This is the study on PAHs and applies to smokeless tobacco:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19860436

This is a piece by Brad Rodu that talks about the same researcher, though I don't know if it's the same study.

http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com...smokeless.html