Health

[jlang]

I recently tried dip after all my friends had offered it numerous times to me, and i really enjoyed it. Id love to continue dipping, but every time i put a lip in i constantly think about the cancer and health risks and all that crap. How long have some of you been dipping, and with no ill effects?

[heders]

Snusify (if you're familiar with him) has mentioned that recent studies suggest that dip does not cause cancer. I have no idea if that's true, but he can maybe enlighten us on the subject.

[precious007]

Snusify (if you're familiar with him) has mentioned that recent studies suggest that dip does not cause cancer. I have no idea if that's true, but he can maybe enlighten us on the subject.

i too believe that it doesn't -

there's other factors involved in mouth cancer

probably a long history of smoking in the patient.

[Darwin]

I wonder if these studies control for intensity of use? If one keeps a dip or chew in most of their waking hours then obviously that is quite likely a major factor. Even snus could be accused of problems if such a heavy usage is present. As in so many instances of the usage of a product there is a level below which few problems are seen and above which serious problems set in rapidly. In this regard smoking produces health issues at fairly low levels of usage and smokeless in general at much higher levels with snus and dry snuff requiring extremely heavy levels of usage to cause serious problems.

With "normal" levels of usage virtually all smokeless products have health issues wildly less grave than smoking. Smoking looms so large above smoking in terms of health consequences that parsing the relative safety issues of smokeless tobacco amounts to a quibbling inconsequentiality.

[sgreger1]

I highly doubt any study that says dip doesn't lead to oral cancer, I thought that was pretty well verified at this point? I will have to look into it. In either case, OP, you should be using snus. All the science points to it being much safer than frankly any other alternative, and (as an ex dipper myself), snus is better anyways. It's the wine of tobacco.

[sgreger1]

I wonder if these studies control for intensity of use? If one keeps a dip or chew in most of their waking hours then obviously that is quite likely a major factor. Even snus could be accused of problems if such a heavy usage is present. As in so many instances of the usage of a product there is a level below which few problems are seen and above which serious problems set in rapidly. In this regard smoking produces health issues at fairly low levels of usage and smokeless in general at much higher levels with snus and dry snuff requiring extremely heavy levels of usage to cause serious problems.

With "normal" levels of usage virtually all smokeless products have health issues wildly less grave than smoking. Smoking looms so large above smoking in terms of health consequences that parsing the relative safety issues of smokeless tobacco amounts to a quibbling inconsequentiality.

Even if you were to heat to the bount of combustion the most innocuous substance and inhaled it, it would still likely be worse than any other form of tobacco. Inhaling combusted plant matter is, in itself, a serious health risk. Let alone the other chemicals.

[Ansel]

Snusify (if you're familiar with him) has mentioned that recent studies suggest that dip does not cause cancer. I have no idea if that's true, but he can maybe enlighten us on the subject.

I think Snusify was mistakenly referring to the Royal College of Physician's report which, i believe, refers to Swedish snus. But, dip now would be safer than dip 20 years ago - but still, i think i would go with Swedish snus if i can. I could be wrong so don't quote me on that... just my 2 cents.

[truthwolf1]

I remember telling my dental hygenist about the safety of snus and she came back with "it still is tissue absorbing nicotine which can cause cancer". Then the patch itself would cause skin cancer right??

Irritation seems like the biggest culprit

but cancer causing nitrosamines which were high in American snuff which those southern women dipped gave them high percentages of oral cancer. Maybe it was a combination of constant irritation and a high nitrosamine product the leads to tissue cancer??

[heders]

Snusify wrote this, and I quote:

Saberz explain that even if it were dip it is not devil she thinks it is. Recent publications have shown that dip does not statistically increase your chances of getting oral cancer and snus is even safer than that.

read page 146 of this recent study http://bookshop.rcplondon.ac.uk/cont...18f017edce.pdf

Here is a section of the document that shows they found no link between american dip and mortality through oral cancer.

Please note that this does not apply to the practice of dipping dry snuff which is proven to case oral cancer.

In one of the largest studies, Henley et al examined the association between exclusive use of oral tobacco (compared with never tobacco users) and mortality from various causes in
the Cancer Prevention Studies (CPS-I and II) conducted by the American Cancer Society.41 The CPS-I analysis included 7,745 exclusive smokeless tobacco users (median age 62) and almost 70,000 never tobacco users recruited in 1959 and followed up to determine cause of death by 1971. CPS-II analyses included 2,488 smokeless users (median age 57) and over 110,000 never tobacco users recruited in 1982 and followed up to determine cause of death by 2000. The studies both ascertained tobacco use at the outset of the study and assumed that use did not change throughout the follow-up period (Table 8.6).41
Neither analysis found evidence of a statistically significant increase in the risk of death from oral cancer. The adjusted hazard ratio estimate in CPS-I was 2.02 and 0.9 in CPS-II. The confidence intervals on both of these estimates were wide. The CPS-I estimate is derived from a larger number of smokeless tobacco users but with shorter follow-up and included only 13 deaths from oral cancer. The CPS-II population of 2,488 smokeless users with a median age of 57 at enrolment and followed for 18 years generated only one death from oral cancer in exclusive smokeless tobacco users and none in former users. Together, these findings suggest that any effect, if present, is very small. Five-year survival from oral cancer has been around 50% for the past 30 years,42 and so it is unlikely that the lack of effect was due to a large number of incident cases occurring but not causing death.
Accortt et al analysed the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES-1) in the United States, comparing the incidence of oral cancer in 414 smokeless tobacco users and 2,979 never tobacco users.43 The participants were aged 45–75 at enrolment in the mid-1970s and were followed up around 10 years later. No cases of oral cancer were observed among the smokeless users, and it was concluded that the standardised incidence rate was not increased among smokeless users.

Yes dipping nasal snuff has the highest TSNA's of them all in smokeless tobacco. Used as intended snuffed up the nose presents no major health issues however.

It was this oversight in past studies that made the health people say all dipping caused oral cancer.

[Ansel]

Snusify wrote this, and I quote:

Ah ok! I stand corrected.

I was referring to a different post a couple of weeks ago which i thought you were talking about. My mistake.

[heders]

Ah ok! I stand corrected.

I was referring to a different post a couple of weeks ago which i thought you were talking about. My mistake.

Not a problem! I'm to tired to read the whole study, but does it conclude that dip does not raise the possibility to die of cancer, or to actually get it? Because it's the getting part that is the worst risk IMO, not if it actually kills you or not.

[spirit72]

I recently tried dip after all my friends had offered it numerous times to me, and i really enjoyed it. Id love to continue dipping, but every time i put a lip in i constantly think about the cancer and health risks and all that crap. How long have some of you been dipping, and with no ill effects?

It doesn't seem to be overly likely to cause oral cancer. On the other hand, there's a good possibility of it causing dental/gum problems with heavy and/or long term use, due to the acidic pH and added sugar.