Redman, Longhorn and Timberwolf dip

[TheOneandOnly]

These are made by Swedish Match correct?

Are they also pasteurized like snus? or.. made just like other American dips?

[victoryredchevy]

They are made by Pinkerton. Pinkerton is only owned by SM. They are still fermented like the usual dip is. However, Pinkerton dips have shown the lowest TSNA levels when compared to the other American brands of dip.

[Tristik]

~~
That's interesting. I knew the redman chew was lower (at least the leaf style), but didn't know the rest were.

What's the difference between the Longhorn and the Timberwolf? I thought they were just 2 different companies bottom-basement brands.
~~

[tom502]

Timber Wolf is a little better quality than Longhorn, but Longhorn is OK.

[NonServiam]

I think everyone else already covered it for ya. So yes, all three are fire cured, but have a TSNA of about 7.5. As far as quality, in my opinion, Longhorn<Timberwolf<Redman.

[tom502]

Though I have heard that overall the tsna counts of all dips have gone down, and haven't found a current testing. I believe all your teeth will fall out way before you might possible slight chance maybe of cancer.

[NonServiam]

Though I have heard that overall the tsna counts of all dips have gone down, and haven't found a current testing. I believe all your teeth will fall out way before you might possible slight chance maybe of cancer.

They have gone down dramatically in the last 10-20 years or so. The last time I looked, Cope, Skoal, and others of the same caliber, average anywhere from about 12 ppm TSNA up to a whopping 127 ppm TSNA on brands like Silvercreek.

While the TSNA of other brands has dropped, one of the biggest factors is that the TSNA count increases exponentially the longer they are on the shelf at room temperature. Pinkerton tobacco does not increase. Sure, you can throw that can of Cope in the fridge as soon as you get home, but what you can't reverse is the TSNA increase since it left the factory. But if TSNA's aren't a concern for someone then dipping is far healthier than smoking.

[tom502]

So, are you saying, Skoal, sitting on the shelf increases in TSNA over time, yet Timber Wolf does not? If so, what proof is there for this? They are all fermented flavored dips, I don't see what would make differences.

[NonServiam]

So, are you saying, Skoal, sitting on the shelf increases in TSNA over time, yet Timber Wolf does not? If so, what proof is there for this? They are all fermented flavored dips, I don't see what would make differences.

Correct. It has something to do with the manufacturing process and the minimization of TSNA causing bacteria. But stand-by, and I'll be back in a bit with the documentation.

[truthwolf1]

I saw a study like that also. 2001-2 and it did show only a slight increase with Timberwolf. Some of the others went up pretty high.

[NonServiam]

So, are you saying, Skoal, sitting on the shelf increases in TSNA over time, yet Timber Wolf does not? If so, what proof is there for this? They are all fermented flavored dips, I don't see what would make differences.

Here is the link: http://www.tobacco.org/Documents/010821oraltsn.htm

It addresses the TSNA increase in aging at about the 6th paragraph down. Just below the TSNA table. Cope increased by 137% over a two, four, and six month period! I'm really curious as to the elapsed time from sealing the can at the factory to getting it in your hands at the counter.

[tom502]

Very interesting. The report is about 10 yrs old. I wonder if the other companies have made any changes?

[NonServiam]

Very interesting. The report is about 10 yrs old. I wonder if the other companies have made any changes?

I'd like to know as well. It seems that since Amercian smokeless companies got their TSNA's into a somewhat tolerable range, they really aren't interested in testing anymore.

But I think with this new idea of harm reduction, it's time to test them again. Not only do we need to know which brands are more hazardous, but I think it will also keep the companies compliant and less likely to become lax in their manufacturing processes.

You can find several TSNA's charts online, some show quite a bit of difference. But Swedish Match/Pinkerton products never seem to waiver and stayed very consistent.

[truthwolf1]

Off topic, but I did read a study of older southern women who were getting high rates of cancer from many years of snuff use. On many of those tsna lists it shows American snuff with extremely high counts.
That is enough to tell me that tsna does have a considerable impact.

[truthwolf1]

Here is a old newspaper study on the snuff link.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7,107348&hl=en

Dry Snuff Bruton 94 287 922 77 31 1219