Having a go at growing in the UK

[justintempler]

The reason, as I understand it, is the Maillard process that is responsible for the development of the characteristic snus flavors is sensitive to the pH environment, adding the sodium/potassium carbonate during the cook would prevent/impair the formation of the beneficial flavors that form more easily at a lower pH.

and while we're at it, Essential oils if you use them are added last because they are heat sensitive and adding them at the beginning of the cook would cause a good amount of them to evaporate away during the cook.

Just about everything else can be added in as part of the casing solution. In the cook I'm doing right now I included 6 grams of orange blossom honey and 5 grams of raisins at the beginning of the cook.

The cooking process only "needs" 25-30% moisture level. All the descriptions from the snus companies usually refer to the cooking process as steam pasteurization with additional moisture and pH adjustment after. I "think" (?) the cooking process works better in a steam environment (as opposed to a soup environment). You probably get a better cook in a steam environment as the steam is constantly cycling through the tobacco which aids in flavor development. The problem for the home cooker is he usually isn't cooking in a sealed container so he will loose moisture due to evaporation during the cook, so for the home cook it's better to start with more moisture than what is done in a controlled manufacturing environment.

I don't pretend to know any of this, it's just my attempt at understanding the process and why the professionals do things the way they do.

I notice little details, take for example the Gotlands snus video :

right at the beginning the screen caption says" here you see the pasteurizing cycle at the ending stage"
pay attention to the consistency of the snus when he does his "quality check on the tobacco mass" @ the 09 second mark.

[squeezyjohn]

Brilliant! Thank you.

Mmmm, raisins - that's kind of the taste I get from some of my favourite tobacco anyway. Like Kardus and Cotton Boll twist have to them. I can see how that could really work - maybe with a dash of brandy too!

It's interesting to see how dry the snus is in the Gotlands video - I think with my equipment it would be very hard to get the heat distributed properly if it was that dry. But it will certainly be too wet on addition of the NaCO3 and NH3Cl + flavourings. Never mind. I'll be able to dry it out.

Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Well that's this batch finished cooking and ageing in the fridge now. What I think I will say is that I think that keeping it at 190-199 F for 2 days has given it a bit more of a burnt flavour than the last batch that was only cooked for 4 hours. Maybe a lower temperature for longer would avoid that. I have to say that I'm surprised that you can get that burnt taste from such low temperatures!

Anyway - it's got the ageing process to go through before it tastes nice as I found out with the last batch. I'll let you know how it got on in a week or so once it's settled in.

Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Well - it's been a while since I started my seeds off but they are slowly coming along ... and I mean S L O W L Y

I planted seeds of rustica and black mammoth in modules back at the beginning of April and they eventually came up as a load of tiny weeny green dots - absolutely tiny seedlings. They took a while to germinate but April here in the UK was a dreadfully cold, grey and rainy place. I thinned them out to one or two per module and then May came like a late-summer heatwave and I put them outside in a cooler greenhouse to get bigger. Most of them did to a certain degree, but still really slowly. I had a set back when a snail got in and chomped through several of my larger specimens and I potted them on to larger flower-pots in May.

Now it's June, and the Rustica plants are starting to become a size I might consider planting outside (about 6 inches tall with big leaves), but the Black Mammoths are still very small with only 2 or 4 proper leaves. I don't think I can leave it much longer before planting out as the growing season probably won't go much beyond September here. I'm desperately hoping for a shooting up in size in the next couple of weeks as I'm preparing a bed on the allotment for them now which with only 10 plants I will have to guard with slug rings, pellets and all manner of netting if I can hope to get something useable this year.

I can certainly say that tobacco is not proving to be an easy crop to look after here which is a bit of a sad thing for me. The weather has turned cold and wet again and all I can hope for is a return to the heat and sun of a week ago soon.

Cheers

Squeezy

[whalen]

Best of luck with the growing. I grew a truckload last year, was easy, then I had to learn to cure it, a real PITA! Damn if a lot of hard work is involved with all the various learning curves. I have ten pounds of whole leaf Burley and ten pounds of Bright Virginia, both grown and properly cured by someone with the knowledge to do it properly. Now to get ten pounds of Dark air cured, then on to los making. Just wanted to acknowledge your efforts, and to congratulate you for your perseverance.

I got a late start here last year in Maryland, and it was snowing when I harvested in October, but my plants grew two feet in late September into early October. So it can grow late in the year, but what it does effect is the curing, you will no doubt have to stalk cure it, then kiln it to get the proper results. The trick I am afraid is to live in a climate that allows you to harvest with enough hot humid weather left to air cure it slowly and fully. 1/4 of my crop dried green and I learned that lesson the hard way. I have no idea if England will allow for natural curing, I actually doubt it, so bone up on artificial curing. I found that my Rustica was actually held back from rapid growth by not planting it sooner, as soon as it was in the ground, it took off like a proverbial weed. The plants I held in reserve did not develope well in the pots, no matter what i did as far as feeding. My observations.

.

[squeezyjohn]

Hi Whalen,

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. Everything you say is probably true - I just love trying to see something through the process from start to finish and I also love trying to grow things that shouldn't necessarily do well here in the UK with our seemingly random climate. Thanks for the tips on getting the rustica planted out early - I might wait until the temperatures get over 10 degrees celsius though - we're going through a mini-winter here in June!

The way I look at it - if I get anything useable from these plants it's a bonus and helps the learning curve which I always love the challenge of. If I ever stop wanting to learn new things and skills then please shoot me - I think that's what life is all about.

Cheers

Squeezy

[whalen]

squeezyjohn- Those Rustica plants are stubby little runts in the best weather! Enjoy your learning curve, mine never stops either! Just wanted to pass on a hard learned lesson about curing, no matter how well they grow you do not want them curing green at the end. I lost 25% of my hard fought harvest. Just giving you my best advice on what might bite you in the ass next, so to say. Now is a good time to read up and plan. Here is my best site reference, http://tobaccotalk.myfastforum.org/index.php , and http://fairtradetobacco.com/forum.php. I hope you don't mind if I hitch a virtual ride along with your endeavors.
What I have learned so far - Tobacco is hard to get started. Once it's growing its hard to kill. The art of curing is the true art of the leaf.

[squeezyjohn]

Well - given the worst news possible for buying snus in the EU I have planted some of my larger Black Mammoth plants out in the back garden where I can keep a closer eye on their progress, despite the weather being about 15 degrees C and heavy wind and rain! I'm clearing a space in the allotment we rent in the next village (£15 a year anyone?) to put out the 8 or so rustica plants I've got in pots along with the rest of the Black Mammoths when they get big enough.

As Whalen says, once they get going it's hard to stop them so I'm remaining positive ... but mid-summer is generally really late to be planting anything in my opinion - and this year has to be one of the worst in my lifetime for growing things due to freaky weather here. If we get a nice hot september/october like we did last year then it should be fine!

I look forward to having something to worry about the curing part come the end of summer!

Cheers

Squeezy

[whalen]

Well I am living vicariously through your summer and await progress reports, and now that the EU turmoil has added a sense of urgency, thoughts will be directed at your plants and weather. I have my plants out, have just learned that the US has placed a large tax on Pipe tobacco now. I have been buying direct from the barn, and have just acquired a large amount of dark air cured for making snus and snuff. Thank god there are stubborn sons of bitches here who will grow all the tobacco they want regardless of the governments scorn. You have joined that brotherhood I dare say.

[squeezyjohn]

Well - we've had a few hot and nice days here and the tobacco plants have started to romp away so I've bitten the bullet and planted the ones big enough out. I have 2 places to put them ... in the back garden vegetable patch which is a fairly heavy clay soil that I suspect is not so good for tobacco plants but it has the added advantage of me being able to check on the plants daily.

Then there's the allotment too which is 2 miles from my house in a much more exposed sunny but windy spot - the soil there is totally different - a sandy loam soil ... I've decided to put out all the rustica there as it should be shorter and therefore not as at risk from the wind. This allotment was 4 foot high in weeds and brambles when I took it on last autumn - I think I'm getting on top of it now and am currently building a shed with a drying/curing porch specifically for tobacco curing. I'm building it out of entirely reclaimed materials to keep the cost to an absolute minimum - so far I have spent 35 pounds to get it built - the rest is from thrown out fence posts and lumber. I will try both types of tobacco I am growing on both sites to see what happens with the different soils and conditions.

Here is picture one - the rustica plants out on the allotment with the shed skeleton in the background.


and a close up of the plants in the sunset I planted out this evening snugly inside their copper slug rings that hopefully stop them being eaten up. It seems most insect and gastropod life forms like a bit of the weed too!


Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Whalen - thank you for your support. It means a lot to me when nobody I know here has any idea about what I am trying to do! It is a testament to the internet that I can feel that I know you as an acquaintance a zillion miles away and I take every bit of advice from you gladly like a hungry dog as much as I do from my more senior allotment neighbours with their advice about how to grow potatoes.

I would love to be free from the ability of external forces to impinge their views on how I want to live my life. And I think the best way of doing that is learning the skills needed to make the thing that I want to the best of my ability from absolute first principles. I would recommend it to anyone - already the feeling of satisfaction of getting this far is amazingly liberating.

Cheers

Squeezy

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

Looks good! I've been staking my plants so the wind can't snap them.

[squeezyjohn]

Yes Snuffy - I was thinking of doing the same thing ... I need to wait for them to get tall enough to stake though!

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

They will probably take off nicely in the ground! Good luck!

[squeezyjohn]

Thanks for the wishes man! I think the poor babies will need them this year.