Copenhagen snus attempt

[squeezyjohn]

Following the success of my last brew - the Ettan copy snus I thought I'd have a go at something more difficult. I'm still enjoying the Ettan copy immensely! The cocoa I added does really add too much of the chocolate note to the taste for it to truly be like Ettan - but actually I really enjoy the taste and smell of it more than I do with real Ettan.

Anyway ... for my next trick I have decided to set myself a very big challenge - which is to attempt to make a Copenhagen flavoured snus. Something which everyone has lusted after who has tried Copenhagen dip and likes it.

It's going to be a hard task - firstly because Copenhagen is not snus. It has a sour taste which is impossible to fully get in to a snus due to the alkali nature of snus. Also it uses undisclosed flavourings which makes deciding what might flavour it tricky! Finally it uses fire-cured tobacco which I don't want to use in large quantities because fire-cured tobacco contains more TSNAs than air-cured does.

Luckily I have some incredibly strong flavoured fire-cured lamina flour which needs very little of it in a blend to seriously get it's flavour in there.

So what does anyone think about essential oils and flavourings for Copenhagen? I'd appreciate any input.

My thoughts ... it's sweetish and savoury too on the tongue - I was going to use a little Xylitol for the sweet and something umami like Soy sauce to replace some of the salt - Copenhagen really does taste to me like it contains monosodium glutamate!

As well as a minimum amount of fire-cured tobacco flour to give the characteristic flavouring I was going to use a little bit of hooch of some description plus floral essential oils like rose-geranium.

Any other tips for me?

[Thunder_Snus]

I really have no idea how anyone could ever get snus to match copenhagen. Unless you make it incredibly runny there is probably no way to come close. Dipping cope is having that awesome tobacco flavor which is nothing like ettan or general or any other plain tobacco snuses and if it tastes like copenhagen i really doubt it would be a pleasure to swallow at all. However the soy sauce idea isn't bad it could definitely add for an interesting flavor.

[squeezyjohn]

The plan is to make it a snus - with the cooking procedure and consistency of snus - loose or portioned. To be used in the upper lip. But to flavour it to have the closest match for Copenhagen that is possible within that remit.

It is very possible to have that awesome tobacco flavour in a snus. By using different varieties of tobacco you can give snus with no flavouring a very close match to lots of different flavours. Dark Fire Cured and Dark Air Cured are what is used in cope. However - the fermented flavour will be more of a challenge as I won't be fermenting this stuff. Some of the top notes created during fermentation can be recreated by adding flavouring essences and oils which match those profiles

If I succeed Thunder_Snus ... I will send you some! It's always nice to dispel doubt!

Now does anybody have any idea what flavourings they might add in the real thing?

[crullers]

I happened to bring my Cope snuff into work with me today and just threw in a big pinch of it.

Your soy sauce idea sounds good, it should supply the saltiness and give a bit of a "dark" background flavour. Is there any chance that the soy sauce might go off after awhile? If soy sauce doesn't work, maybe some ammonium chloride could provide the salty-sour taste as well as the slight "chemical" flavour I get in Copenhagen.

If your fire cured tobacco doesn't give enough of the smoky flavour perhaps you could try a bit of liquid smoke as well.

I hope you can pull this off, the only reason I keep Copenhagen around is because there is no snus that comes close to the flavour. I've yet to order my tobacco seeds for next year so this could greatly influence which varieties I buy.

[squeezyjohn]

I know they use ammonium chloride in the Copenhagen ingredients - and I have some - but I will also get the ammonia produced in the snus-making process of adding potassium carbonate when it reacts with the tobacco - so it might be overkill. I was planning on leaving it out.

I think because snus needs to be alkaline to truly be snus - I'll never get that sour pickled type flavour on the tongue.

[Snusdog]

Squeezy my bet would be that a molasses (or a burned molasses) enters into the flavoring to some degree. Not a great deal but just enough to accent the fire cure and give it a deeper flavor.

But you my friend are the master....so I can't wait to see what you finally come up with

[squeezyjohn]

It may well do Snusdog!

But I'm not going to use sugar on an oral tobacco product ... I'm hoping that the sort of honey butterscotch notes of virginia brightleaf might do the trick. For actual sweetness I will use xylitol or liquorice root as I do in my other snus recipes. However Copenhagen is not very sweet at all.

The official ingredients are:

• Water
• Tobacco
• Sodium Chloride
• Binders
• Natural and Artificial Flavors
• Ammonium Chloride
• Ethyl Alcohol
• Ammonium Carbonate
• Sodium Carbonate
• Preservatives

So the thing I'm trying to get to is what the natural and artificial flavours might be.

For the booze (ethyl alcohol) - I will try some eau de vie which I think might work well. Geranium essential oil seems like a definite. I will try a little bit of salmiak (ammonium chloride) in there too to give it the sourness like crullers suggests ... thanks for the tip - it's definitely in there!

I am teetering on the brink of trying to use a dark woody essential oil like vetivert in there - but I will have to make sure it is food safe first. EDIT: It is considered food safe if 100% pure.

Cheers

Squeezy

[Skell18]

Interesting, very salty is all i can offer, but, like crullers I have a tin of snuff open so I will throw in a wad later and try and pin down some flavours. Salt and paint are the first things to mind and lots of smokeyness.

[Thunder_Snus]

The plan is to make it a snus - with the cooking procedure and consistency of snus - loose or portioned. To be used in the upper lip. But to flavour it to have the closest match for Copenhagen that is possible within that remit.

It is very possible to have that awesome tobacco flavour in a snus. By using different varieties of tobacco you can give snus with no flavouring a very close match to lots of different flavours. Dark Fire Cured and Dark Air Cured are what is used in cope. However - the fermented flavour will be more of a challenge as I won't be fermenting this stuff. Some of the top notes created during fermentation can be recreated by adding flavouring essences and oils which match those profiles

If I succeed Thunder_Snus ... I will send you some! It's always nice to dispel doubt!

Now does anybody have any idea what flavourings they might add in the real thing?

I would very much appreciate that, I wish you the best of luck. I dipped nothing but 2 cans of copenhagen long cut straight (gold lid) a day for almost 4 years. It would be awesome to taste it again without my mouth turning into a dried out sack of crap.

[squeezyjohn]

Interesting, very salty is all i can offer, but, like crullers I have a tin of snuff open so I will throw in a wad later and try and pin down some flavours. Salt and paint are the first things to mind and lots of smokeyness.

Ha ha ... Paint ... that's the secret ingredient!

I knew it was something I'd smelt before.

[squeezyjohn]

I would very much appreciate that, I wish you the best of luck. I dipped nothing but 2 cans of copenhagen long cut straight (gold lid) a day for almost 4 years. It would be awesome to taste it again without my mouth turning into a dried out sack of crap.

The only real snus I ever had that had similar qualities was the old Gellivare which was fermented for longer in the old style. It didn't have the same flavour as cope at all ... but the texture was more similar than any other snus and you got that fermented type taste too.

I love the taste but can't use much at a time ... it makes me a bit sick to the stomach. So anything close to success would be a nice treat!

[Skell18]

Ha ha ... Paint ... that's the secret ingredient!

I knew it was something I'd smelt before.

It always reminds me of paint! I may have a tin of LC int he freezer if you want to taste test it?

[squeezyjohn]

I've got one open on my desk! Not sure I could even attempt this from memory!

[Snusdog]

I wonder if something like a maple extract (the kind used in cooking) might work while avoiding the sugar aspect.

Its been so long since I had any Copenhagen my only thinking on this is American Tobacco's affinity with molasses in almost anything it makes.

The other thing that I think is that.............. more than flavor....... what people are looking for when they want a Copenhagen substitute is the texture............my bet is that close flavor and spot on texture will be seen as a success more than a dead ringer on the flavor but still having snus texture.

Coming from dip to snus texture was one of the big things I remember having to adjust to

[squeezyjohn]

Well - I'm not looking to make it comercially ... I'm making it for me and for the knowledge it gives ... I hate the texture of dip compared to loose snus. There's no point in just making Copenhagen, because you can buy it!

But an attempt to make a snus that tastes like copenhagen is a challenge because everyone says you can't do it! And I like playing around with flavours and trying to pick apart what the individual aromas in something is fun.