Opinions . Everyone has an arsehole

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  • alopezg1
    Member
    • Jul 2013
    • 722

    Opinions . Everyone has an arsehole

    Hello

    Well I am just writing this as i am not sure what to think . I have managed to stop smoking
    and even more remarkably i actually feel ok about it. That is , happy and comfortable this time
    being smoke free. The only thing is , well i found that snus didn't do it for me unfortunately. I found that the
    e-cig was the thing for me . Not to say i don't like snus, i do... i just think what may have been more of an issue
    for me was the hand to mouth inhalation thing, rather than the nicotine per se. Now i am settling in to my new life however
    i am starting to find - almost immediatley- ways of making myself anxcious about it ! I just don't know what to think about these
    e-cigarettes. It seems that if you ask someone who uses them their opinion on the things , more often than not you'll get
    something along the lines of the 'safe as a cup of coffee' routine. They're seems to be a need to justify something there ... there's
    something a little shrill and unsettling about the way the guys over at the e-cig forum get about their beloved devices when they
    come under criticism in any way. But then other extreme seems to be the Luddites and reactionary anti- tobacco militia who refuse to give
    the poor old e-cig any ground at all as a "safe alternative" or even as an alternative. I don't know . I don't feel comfortable with them 100%
    and feel that i trust snus a great deal more . Maybe the answer is to supplement vaping with snusing , reduce my intake . It seems a little ridiculous though to be dependent to such a degree on.... whatever. I do feel better physically than when i was smoking, thats for sure. But not as good as i did when snusing. I went for a bike ride today and was shocked at how unfit i have become, which may have more to do with recent lazziness than either vaping, smoking or snusing; I did definitely feel chesty though and my breathing was labored in a way i don't think it would be if i was not vaping . I think they are harmful to the respiratory system , or rather they aren't good for the respiratory system - no shit!- I suppose the question is now just how bad for you they are . They do seem to have some pretty serious and reputable sounding people behind them though, who seem enthusiastic. I don't know . I was thinking though : all htis talk about the toxicity levels found in the vapor , about the safety of inhaling propylene glycol etc. I was thinking it is one thing to know whether something is harmful , posses harmful properties and another to know exactly what physiological effect it may have on the body. Banana's for example are not toxic ; but say if i was going to swallow 50 whole bananas every day for ten years , there would almost definitely be some detrimental effects to my digestive system , my esophagus. Tree's are all well and good but if you drive a buick at 70 mph into one head first they can be quite harmful .

    Anyway i am rambling along here and not really making any real statements about anything, but i suppose i am after some impartial - or not- opinions on the e-cigs from people here .... asking what people think at the e-cig forum seems a bit like your Mum whether your attractive or not any ideas , thoughts, premonitions ?
  • Snusdog
    Member
    • Jun 2008
    • 6752

    #2
    I am not an e-cig user but we have quite a few here on the forum. Also, being snus' little sister in the "Harm Reduction" movement I have keep a sideways glance on the goings on with e-cigs. Here is my take:

    The problem with assessing e-cigs is that no one knows for certain.........they have not been around long enough to conduct a broad long term study. That said, there is good reason to believe (based on their component ingredients) that their risk factor is negligible. And it is certain that they are far FAR better than cigarettes.

    The two advantages that snus has over e-cigs are (1) snus is all natural and thus does not share the chemical alteration/extraction processes that e-cigs do. (2) Snus has been studies in depth and the negligible-ness of its risks are well documented.

    So if you ask me.......if e-cigs have helped you quit cigarettes that is a VERY VERY good thing. If you are concerned I think mixing in some snus is a good idea (it certainly won't hurt) and in all likelihood the e-cig risks are minute. One thing you know.....going back to cigarettes is returning to a very real and known hazard.

    If it were me or a family member........I would not hesitate to steer them towards e-cigs as a safe(r) alternative
    When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers

    Comment

    • Snusdog
      Member
      • Jun 2008
      • 6752

      #3
      As I go back over and read my above post it sounds like I am pitting e-cigs and snus against each other......which is not at all what I am trying to do......my intent was simply to compare what is known about each and thus to point out that both are great options for those trying to quit cigarettes.

      While snus has a longer studied history than e-cigs, there is nothing in the component ingredients of e-cigs or its manner of delivery that suggests its use should be a concern........if they find something in the future, it will be a discovery of something that at this time is unknown and unexpected.........in fact the main argument against e-cigs is "We don't know what it's long term effect will be"......and even that is an overstatement.......what the statement really means is......"Given the ingredients and delivery system, we don't see anything of concern. However, we would like to study its use over a longer period of time."
      When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers

      Comment

      • Ansel
        Member
        • Feb 2011
        • 3696

        #4
        I don't have an arsehole.

        er... i mean opinion. I don't have an opinion.

        *gets coat*

        Comment

        • Crow
          Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 4312

          #5
          Originally posted by Ansel View Post
          I don't have an arsehole.

          er... i mean opinion. I don't have an opinion.

          *gets coat*
          You have to pull the plug oat.

          :ghost:
          Last edited by Crow; 06-04-14, 05:29 PM.
          Words of Wisdom

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          Premium Parrots: sounds like a freak to me
          Premium Parrots: remember DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON CROW
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          Comment

          • taffyjock
            Member
            • Sep 2015
            • 121

            #6
            Can you really blame the vaping community for being perhaps a bit over sensitive to criticism when we've upset some of the best funded organisation on the planet.

            Pharma have seen a big drop in NRT sales but their bread and butter of treating smoking related disease is also being hit.

            Tobacco control- vaping has been caught up in their ideological fight against anything tobacco or nicotine. You'd think less smoking would make them happy, but no, it threatens their very existence.

            Govs- more and more rely on tobacco tax to balance their books so with less smokers means less tax, here in UK tobacco tax dwalfs the costs of treating smoking related diseases.

            And Big Tobacco, who even I once thought the biggest enemy, losing sales of cigarettes as people switch to cheaper and safer alternatives are a threat to their profits, I'm not sure their long term plan for vaping could be good or bad.

            Everything they've thrown at us has been proven wrong. From encouraging children into smoking to formaldehyde and PG being deadly antifreeze.

            I agree with snusdogs sentiments that vaping and snusing are not competing with each other but rather has the same goals of reducing harm, hell they both have the same ingredients PG, VG, Nicotine and flavourants just one is ingested the other inhaled.

            A win for acceptance of vaping would make the snus ban very hard to justify, I dream of a world where I can obtain eliquid and snus as easy as I could cigarettes.

            Comment

            • psychicferret
              Member
              • Jan 2015
              • 418

              #7
              all i know is ECIGS hurt my athma more :'( or cheer as you may like. then snus but ecigs are mroe fun with their physical movement of hands and arms. and gives you good exercise when escaping the smoke free areas of speech and other humans,

              On the other hand VG seems safer then PG for me... so all is good on the ecig rounds...

              1 drunken post down many more to come...

              or maybe not after 12 hours vaping im back to the snus....
              Last edited by psychicferret; 21-10-15, 01:18 AM.

              Comment

              • taffyjock
                Member
                • Sep 2015
                • 121

                #8
                Does sound like you have a sensitivity to PG which is fairly common, Nicotine level is too high or your not getting enough water down you.

                Are you getting a hot vapour when you inhale and check your coil and wick to see if it's not gunked up.

                Comment

                • psychicferret
                  Member
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 418

                  #9
                  Al I know is I've tried both vg and pg with the same lung restraining effect. Not even smoking is that bad. That being said vaping cbd in a pg/vg mix isn't bad at all, if anything I can breath easier.

                  It could be the ecig im using, one is like a TW tornado V3(vivid) the other is like an evod but isnt... (jenson evo)
                  Last edited by psychicferret; 22-10-15, 09:30 AM.

                  Comment

                  • taffyjock
                    Member
                    • Sep 2015
                    • 121

                    #10
                    https://youtu.be/pSJ4Z4liass

                    Comment

                    • mattzq8sonoma
                      Member
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 104

                      #11
                      Anybody ever heard of "popcorn lung"? Caused by diacetyl, which is an artificial butter flavor (is also found in natural butter), using in microwave popcorn. It has a buttery smell and can also have a butterscotch smell at the right concentration. When it is heated and inhaled it causes basically the same symptoms as emphysema and COPD after long term exposure. I've read studies that around 70% of flavored e-juice contains diacetyl. E-juice is heated and inhaled, so it's definitely something to consider when picking an e-juice. The flavored stuff may not be the way to go right now until there is some regulation on e-juice ingredients. Just my arsehole....I mean opinion.

                      Comment

                      • taffyjock
                        Member
                        • Sep 2015
                        • 121

                        #12
                        Ok the diacetyl study was based on a group of eliquids picked because they would most likely contain it, custard, yogs, butterscotch etc, so it wasn't 70% of all eliquids but 70% of ones that may contain it, fruit, sweety flavours were not tested.

                        Yes it was found but at lower quantities than in cigarettes & lower than occupational exposure limits, that part they conveniently omitted.

                        The link between D & popcorn lung (lung obliteration) is still tenuous, based on popcorn factory workers exposed to levels exceeding exposure but most were already smokers.

                        I do agree that if its a compound we shouldn't inhale it should not be in eliquid & many flavourhouses like flavourart do not sell flavours with D in & have provided MSDS tests.

                        The whole thing did cause a crapstorm in the vaping world, way before science picked up on it, but some rogue makes continued to use flavours containing it after being warned back in 2008-09.

                        Its a compound id rather avoid and will only use flavours that have been tested in my liquids.

                        Comment

                        • taffyjock
                          Member
                          • Sep 2015
                          • 121

                          #13
                          Positive news from NCSCT in UK which is runs training for Stop Smoking Services http://www.ncsct.co.uk/publication_e...e_briefing.php

                          Comment

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