Bad report on e-ciggs....

[lxskllr]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32008796#32091534

broadcast news report on this.

Thank god they didn't mention snus. I'd just as soon keep it off the news.

[zmanzero]

Are our congressmen really as stupid as I think they are, or are they as corrupt as I think they are?

they're as corrupt as you think they are MasterGuns, all politics aside.

Thank god they didn't mention snus. I'd just as soon keep it off the news.

they'll eventually come for us lxskllr, it's a question of when. imho.

[lxskllr]

they'll eventually come for us lxskllr, it's a question of when. imho.

You're right of course, but I'll take every day I can get :^)

[zmanzero]

god, me too lxskllr. i'm just sorry that i found snus this late in the game.

[lxskllr]

I feel like we're screwed regardless, but a miracle might save the day. I doubt snus will get positive attention from the media, as that doesn't sell ad time as well as negative news does. A bad article could get enough busy bodies on board to tip a sheep's...er Senator's vote against us.

[Ozmodius]

Just to point out, nicotine is a carcinogen. There's no two ways around it.

Not true.

"Nicotine itself is not carcinogenic, according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, but is implicated in heart disease."
(quoted from http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c.../full/91/6/502)

"Nicotine is not in itself carcinogenic, but has been shown to be co-carcinogenic
with benzo(a)pyrene [also found in tobacco smoke] in causing skin cancer in mice"
(quoted from http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/....020186.000321 )

In conclusion, while nicotine itself is not carcinogenic it is shown to be co-carcinogenic with other chemicals, including those found in cigarette smoke. Once a person has lung cancer, nicotine can interfere with body's natural ability (as well as the ability of cancer fighting drugs) to get rid of the cancer.
(See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7848904 )

[sheilalynn]

Part of the reason they want to ban them, is because Philip Morris wants them banned.

bingo. you hit the nail on the head sheila.

There's been tons of discussions and links posted and everything else to do with the "Marlboro law" or "Philip Morris Law" over on the e-cig forum. Makes for interesting reading! And it was also the only time I actually watched a roll call vote on CSPAN...couldn't believe some of the junk that goes on in the senate, sheesh....

[Snusages]

Seems FDA is the cancer in USA, not the products. :lol:

HAHA! Of course. I do like to know whats in my food though. So, double edged sword.

[VBSnus]

I hate the articles I read that say things like "Snus, which is Swedish for Snuff". False information = bad public image!

As for e-cigarettes, I couldn't do them. I kept tasting burning polysomethingorothers in my mouth.

[texasmade]

Seems FDA is the cancer in USA, not the products. :lol:

HAHA! Of course. I do like to know whats in my food though. So, double edged sword.

i would like to know whats in camel snus also

[stubby2]

I'm a lot more optimistic about snus in the US then I am e-cigs. Snus has decades of research behind it. Swedish Match has started Phase III double-blind Independent studies. This is the most stringent, expensive type of study.

http://snuscentral.org/snusnus/mr-un...cal-study.html

Snus is not the easy target that e-cigs are.

E-cigs are just to much like the real thing. The anti-gangs are all over it. My personal opinion is that the FDA needs a sacrificial lamb and e-cigs are the obvious choice. There will be lots of screaming and crying among e-cig users that will satisfy the anti-gangs. I would be surprised if e-cigs survive, and equally surprised is snus does not.

[tom502]

i would like to know whats in camel snus also

6 crushed Altoids and 3 packs of Sweetnlow.

[MasterGuns]

I'm a lot more optimistic about snus in the US then I am e-cigs. Snus has decades of research behind it. Swedish Match has started Phase III double-blind Independent studies. This is the most stringent, expensive type of study.

http://snuscentral.org/snusnus/mr-un...cal-study.html

Snus is not the easy target that e-cigs are.

E-cigs are just to much like the real thing. The anti-gangs are all over it. My personal opinion is that the FDA needs a sacrificial lamb and e-cigs are the obvious choice. There will be lots of screaming and crying among e-cig users that will satisfy the anti-gangs. I would be surprised if e-cigs survive, and equally surprised is snus does not.

I read that and the article blasting PM. I have to say, I think the FDA is dreaming with its reduced harm standards.
If one of the criteria is "does not cause unnecessary use" as in people who didn't smoke before don't start using snus either, then snus may be in a bit of trouble.
I'm one of those people! I love the stuff. Everything else was okay but just didn't do it for me. A pack of cloves would last a month, and I wouldn't buy another for two!
Cigars, well, once or twice a week, but more than that and I get tired of them.
Hookah, just too expensive. Good, but too much work.
Cigarettes, just not enough plus sides to warrant constant use.
Dip, no. Spitting that brown runny juice is gross to me.
Snus, well, there's a winner!
What I'm saying is if people who know they enjoy nicotine occasionally try out snus, I'd be willing to bet that the perks (great taste, no spitting, rare if any chance of cancer) will win out and draw them in like they did me, and I say that's a good thing!
I don't understand why, if it's safer, they would be upset by people who don't use tobacco before using snus.
It's all a stigma, really. Tobacco has been stigmatized to the point where it's use at all, no matter how safe, warrants one response: "you idiot, it's still tobacco, quit marketing to my kids!"
morons, it was said here before, but just because something tastes good doesn't mean it's for kids! Just because somethings discreet doesn't mean it's for kids! And just because it's tobacco doesn't make me an evil or stupid person. If anything, it makes me smarter than those crusaders who are so ignorant and closed-minded that they can't realize if their kids want a smoke, or dip, or snus, they will get their hands on it regardless of the restrictions, advertising, or taste. Maybe you (crusader) idiots should do a better job of educating your kids on tobacco instead of relying on the government, teachers who are clueless, and guys with missing lungs and jaws speaking in auditoriums full of sleeping kids.
Wow I just went a little nuts there. Snus doesn't screw up my blood pressure, anti-tobacco lobbyists do! :evil:

[TropicalBob]

I have been an e-smoker for 18 months now (snusing for several years). If they want a guinea pig's body to test, I offer mine.

The crux of the problem with the e-cig is that manufacturers did not follow directions. These are not tobacco products, like snus and nasal snuff and Stonewall dissolvables. These are drug delivery products, using technology to vaporize a nicotine-laced liquid.

In the FDA's mind, these "treat" a medical condition called "nicotine addiction." That being the case, the e-cigs are medical devices -- and no approvals have been given them as needed. The liquid, a mix of the proven-safe propylene glycol, nicotine, alcohol, glycerin and other chemicals, has never been tested, and is thus a "new drug," requiring FDA approval.

There were no tests submitted to the FDA. No approvals have been given. Shipments are being seized as "unapproved" and "misbranded." The immediate future for e-cigs is dismal.

But the FDA's misinformation of this past week was shameful, as it has been for many harm reduction products, including snus and snuff. The agency has an agenda. No question. E-cigs are a sacrificial product to appease the anti types now in vogue.

That's why even as a long-time e-smoker, I still make my regular snus orders, still try every new snuff I can get, still bulk order Java Stonewall, still smoke three pipe fulls of latakia-cavendish tobacco every day. I love my e-smoking, every bit as much as anyone here loves Swedish snus. But I see the ugly handwriting on the wall.

Down the road? The FDA will "regulate" all smokeless tobacco products within two years. That's us snusers and snuffers. Anyone look forward to that day?

[Paladinx]

Obviously e-cigarettes would be a threat to all three powerful companies, The FDA, big pharma, and the tobacco companies. They WANT to find things wrong with it. They dont want these things catching on. So of course they will find whatever they can and also present it however they can to make it sound bad.

but yes the quality control issues do concern me. no real studies have been done on e-cigarettes so neither side really has any good facts right now.