What do YOU want in American snus?

[bsd777]

I have tried to get people to snus over my time snussing, and the approach IS different talking to a dipper than a smoker. For a smoker, I've tried explaining the nicotine delivery, and how much money you can save doing it. They have, in my experience, been less picky about taste and flavors. However, the dippers I have been in contact with are hardcore. I was a dipper, but, honestly, I didn't find it all that enjoyable for a lot of reasons, so snussing was easy. It seemed to have more of a kick, my throat didn't burn, I read a lot of studies and felt safer, and the flavors were, to me, for a more refined palate. However, there are dippers that expect to move from dip to snus having it be the same experience, and it's just not. I think there's a reason no one has tried to sell watermelon snus. It seems to me they were the ones who complained more about the smell and the taste than smokers, who maybe are more used to a tobacco smell and taste from smoking.

You may be right, but I've heard a lot of people, on this forum, complain about smell. They seem to be mostly former smokers/portion users. I know it's never bothered me and remember with fondness, how dipping buddies and I always took a whiff of a new can and enjoyed that strong, smelling salts-like hit. They will like Grov and I'd think would be interested if they knew the health facts. Plus, many could find not needing to spit a major bonus. I knew many who swallowed Cope, but none did so out of choice, always need. Think about work, class or not needing to drag a spitter into a deer tree stand.

[Simplysnus]

When can you reveal your company?

[lxskllr]

If you start with 2 styles, I'd do an Ettan/Grov clone, and a mint. If you start with a bergamot snus, you'll be competing directly with General. The Ettan and mint covers both ends of the snus spectrum, without getting into stupid flavors.

[GoVegan]

Tobacco, salt and bergamot in that order pure and simple. I would also love to see a can of mini potions that actually gives you more portions for your money and not less. Think General or Granit for taste and you will have a good product.

[danielan]

(however, staying away from dip flavors, like cherry, is a must).

Now, why you gotta hate on cherry? Try SnusX Cherry. Cherry snus can be tasty.

There are portions out there that I just feel uncomfortable having in my lip (General's Onyx, for example)

Onyx is pretty comfortable if you fluff it. But the black pouch, while it looks cool in the can, tends to peek out of my lip when I smile - which I don't appreciate.

I have, however, tried to make the point that minis, while discreet, just aren't worth the trouble.

General mini mints are a quite accessible snus for beginners. Discretion is also important depending on what demographic you are seeking to market to. In many jobs mini's are a must.

We haven't decided on a nicotine level, whether regular or sterk. I'm not sure if we'd like to do just regular, just sterk, or a mix.

I'd stick with regular or maybe regular + mini. You can always double barrel regulars, it's messy to cut portions in half.

As far as price, or number of portions, I really can't say at this point in the talks, but I'm sure those details will get ironed out as we move along.

I think it is more important to have quality then low price.

One thing that I keep in mind is that snus is a niche market.

One thing in your favor is that Camel and Marlboro are introducing the concept to a much wider audience. If you could take the high-end in terms of product quality and image*, I think you could do well.

*Image is important too - the product should, through its advertising and graphics speak of quality. Look at a Klondike can or a Discreet pouch compared to a General can.

[danielan]

Other questions I have for your guys.... what was your first snus?

Camel Frost

is it the flavor, the cut, the nicotine delivery, the aroma, the design - what "does it" for you?

Flavor and mouth-feel. The nicotine just has to be over a certain line (about 6-8mg) for me.

[UTVol10]

Make sure your product is approved by people in Sweden before you sell it here. :P

That's all I ask.

I also agree with Chad on this one. Personally, I'd be looking for a product that's more along the lines of a classic snus flavor, i.e. General, Ettan, Grov, etc. or I believe somebody even mentioned a cinnamon-flavored snus. I have always wanted to see a product that's peppery (General) with a slightly smoky/oak/cedar flavor along with a hint of Kentucky Bourbon (a very mild Probe-like flavor). I feel that a different flavor aside from mint/wintergreen would do well in the American market if it was something that was familiar and popular with the American crowd. I think a stronger product would do well here since the only "stark" snus we have is the new wintergreen flavored snus from Gotlandssnus.

Flavor choices aside, what I would love to see most of all is an American company to step up to the plate and design a snus brand that's distinctively American but made with the same care with regard to product design, packaging, manufacturing, and promotion as Swedish snus. This is where Camel and Marlboro both dropped the ball in my opinion--I feel they both designed their products based on cigarettes and smokeless tobacco in the US instead of a Swedish snus adapted to the American market. There's a huge opportunity for a company to capitalize on the absence of any such product on the US market.

My first experience with Swedish snus was General White portions--they were perfect for a beginner like me since the flavor wasn't overwhelming and I could still taste tobacco rather than the flavoring. From there, I branched out into general original portions, and the rest is history. Making a product as both a white and original portion would be a great way to allow users of tobacco products to gradually transition to snus products.

[Jwalker]

It will cost you money. You need more than two products. I'm hoping you work for Lollilard or L&M(this my strongest suspicion) so you have the money. It will take time. LIST THE INGREDIENTS. People seem to like natural tobacco but that's idiotic for snus because without humecants and preservatives the tobacco will dry out and mold. Emphasize the no or reduced pesticide yada yada. You can't market it as a safe alternative although this is perhaps one of the few case where it is. People like knowing what's in their tobacco and will make assumptions from this is natural tobacco, water, salt, and all the flavorings are safe in food. Health Nazis imply chemicals in cigs and dip are what's harmful. That's why american spirits are so popular even though having no additives makes the stuff dry and harsh after a while people still use it and adjust to the taste. Use quality tobacco. This should be easy since Altria and Rj Reynolds have broken their contracts with several thousand farmers you can try to give them a fair deal and they'll be receptive to your specifications and grateful. Try to make a good but different tobacco flavor than general or ettan since they will honestly be better than what you make although take inspiration from them. You could try using different tobaccos than are traditionally used. Pure burlely or virginia snus maybe. I'd call one of them after the tobacco. I'm sure this creates TSNA issues which you should prioritize although the health scare is questionable. but would probably improve the taste. Making a good tobacco snus is probably harder than people think. Mint is a good idea Non dip flavors that come to mind are licorice, CHOCOLATE, and alcohol. Whiskey is a traditional flavor you could call the snus black and try to imitate cope black this will get you some quick momentum. You could also try exotic flavors which people These will all create PR issues which can be avoided by using circular cans. On packaging make the can look good. DO NOT name the snus after your cigarette brands.

Packing and Advertising are difficult as you're aware. Word of mouth, sampling, and POS are the only way to sell your product. Advertise that the product is coming how you can and try to make to make it available everywhere. Emphasize american made and talk about the tobacco and the history of your company and why your making snus. Possibly do magazine ads emphasizing quality in cigar aficionado, and offer to talk about the product. I'd suggest adding text since it's so rare now to actually convey information it will stand out. If you make a good product people will figure it out. Early american Tobacco companies didn't have TV or print. I'd suggest selling Los snus at the same time since you'll be the only company to do it, you could potentially make your own brand of icetools and prismasters since that's a good form of marketing and the profit margins can be good. Offer bulk discounts and try to make your product cheaper than cigarettes. Treat your retailers (partially this may require allowing mark ups)well and people will want to stock it. Snus is a new product and it may take time to introduce it good luck! One american attribute is taking risks, do it swedish match is cautious if you can launch your product and build market share especially among women and people who don't traditionally use smokeless tobacco but smoke you should take market share from cigarettes. It's not illegal but I'd recommend against marketing to non users since it's harder to convince non-tobacco users to use tobacco.

I'd suggest starting with a high quality tobacco snus with at least 9-12mg as loose and WP and a flavored snus that's WP and mini wp with 8mg of nicotine. You should then do more flavors another tobacco snus and start discount snus brands of tobacco.

[Jwalker]

Oh and your company is going to be attacked hard for marketing to children because politicians and health "charities" need cig tax rev. Don't make any health claims, even in public statements you can be found violating the new FDA law; challenge any group saying you market to children for suggestions on what they think you should do, mention that it's people choice to use your product. That kids like what adults like and it's the job of society to make selling tobacco to minors illegal (this isn't how kids even get tobacco anyways they get it from friends) you've done what you reasonably can people know the health consequences and that nicotine is addictive and it shouldn't be the job of government to control peoples behavior and personal choices. If they say the stupidest thing that your not marketing it as harm reduction, point out that it's illegal to do so. It may serve your interest to not differentiate snus from chewing tobacco since there's no movement to ban chew in states but snus and e-cigs aren't so certain because fear of reduced tax revenue.

[GENERAL BILLY]

Regular portions, no sweeteners. I agree the lab series size is probably optimal.

[GoVegan]

Also, I would be willing to pay a bit more for a snus that is certified organic and available in bulk packaging.

[justintempler]

Swedish Match is using it's General line as it's flagship into the USA, so you don't want a citrusy clone, you want something different.
R.J. Reynolds owns the Lucky Strike trademark in the USA and it's obvious they aren't interested in doing a real snus, so we'll never have a Lucky Strike here.
BAT which owns F&L, produces Lucky Strike in Sweden and is the #2 snus manufacturer in Sweden. They are turning Lucky Strike into their flagship. Original, White, Bold, Lös, and now Nites. If the Swedes like Lucky then you have a product that can compliment and compete with General here in America.
.
If you can duplicate the brand image of Lucky in a snus in America, I think you'd have a winner. The brand name is taken of course but it's the image that Lucky projects that you want. It's a taste that says pure tobacco flavour,
I'm thinking an image of America's tobacco roots with a little bit of of the James Dean rebel thrown in, no excuses.

Long portion.

[tom502]

If your company is associated with a well known cig name, and if you can make a quality snus, try and use that cig brand name for it.

[Premium Parrots]

a good coffee/vanilla flavor would be nice. If done right I believe its a flavor that a lot of people would enjoy.

and put a photo of a sexy naked gal on the underside of the lid.
that'll make customers use your product more often. it will probably make it easier for us to convert more people to snus.

did I mention nipple shaped portions? Who wouldn't want to suck on one of them?

[GoVegan]

If your company is associated with a well known cig name, and if you can make a quality snus, try and use that cig brand name for it.

It makes you wonder why the Lucky Strike brand here doesn't try and come up with some agreement to import the Swedish Lucky Strike snus and sell it here. That would revive a dying American brand and bring in more sales for the Swedes. Same thing with Camel. There seems to be no cooperation whatsoever between the tobacco companies even if they are carrying the same brand.