Then they should have a fee to serve people that didn't have it. Like charge him a grand or something after they did it. I mean, illegals walk into a hospital, and use up public services all the time, and they don't pay for it.
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$ 1,000 doesn't even begin to cover the costs, and that's the problem with pay-as-you-go communal services. Sure, the most equitable way to resolve this would be to charge only those people who actually used the firefighting service, but that's not logistically possible. You have steady costs vs unsteady income, meaning the efficiency of your firefighting department would fluctuate based on the number of fires they put out.Originally posted by tom502 View Post
The opt-in $75 solution chosen by this city is actually a very elegant solution. It's not a tax, so nobody is forced to pay it and those that do can rest assured that the money actually does go towards the firefighting department, rather than some nonsense they're not interested in.
As for the hospital: In theory, the same principle applies, so those who knowingly didn't pay for healthcare could be denied treatment. However, we can't let people die if we can help it, so those with grievous injuries or life-threatening diseases must be treated, even if it means that the community has to front the costs. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't charge those people for the treatment afterwards.Comment
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Tom,Originally posted by tom502 View Post
I know how you can find out you can always run for mayor of Obion County, Tennessee. The Obion County Commison is the one that decided on the subscription based solution. If the voters like your idea, you can become mayor.
Fire chief addresses Obion County residentsComment
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I'm not saying the guy was right, or their system is wrong, I am saying what if the guys wife was trapped in there, I guess they'd just let her die, like their pets(if that is true). That's just not right. They should have done what they could have, and then charged him whatever, the $1000 was just a number I made up. And if he didn't pay up, then they could sue him for his land or something.Comment
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Originally posted by tom502 View Post
Since we are playing, What if...
What if, the city went back to the old system and only took care of city fires and left the county to fend for itself?
The city taxpayers are paying for the fire department, not the county.Comment
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No, they wouldn't have let her die. If they did that, they'd face criminal charges.Originally posted by tom502 View Post
Look Tom, I get where you're coming from. You feel sorry for the guy because he lost his home and his pets. That's understandable. But the fact of the matter is this: He had a choice to pay or not. He chose not to. Bad things happened. Not OUR fault. Not a reason to take away freedom by forcing a firefighting tax on everybody.
Now, you may think that the freedom we'd give up to have universal firefighting coverage would be minimal compared to the catastrophic loss suffered by this guy, right?
But think about other reckless decisions people make. Say some guy decides to climb a mountain. He has an accident and falls to his death. Do I feel sorry for him? Yeah. But it's not my fault. It was his decision to be reckless. It's not a reason to outlaw mountain-climbing for everybody else.
It's a slippery slope. Once you concede away some freedom, you have to be extremely careful that people don't take advantage of it. It's a constant struggle.Comment
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It's really sad that all Neocons care about is few extra bucks in their wallets. They care nothing about helping their neighbors and countrymen. They can all go to hell..Comment
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Why would they? They have no obligation to put out the fire.Originally posted by Mordred View PostComment
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Another thing you have to take into consideration...
This is NOT a big city fire deaprtment, where firefighters sleep in the station complete with firepole and firedog. The South Fulton FD is a volunteer fire department, firefighters don't get a salary, their operating budget was around $8,000 a year. They have to leave their jobs to go fight these fires. How many volunteers are you going to lose when you expand by providing county wide coverage. Firefighting isn't exactly the safest job, you want them to do more of it and do it for free for people that can't afford $75 a year?Comment
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Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
I'm confused, which ones are the NeoCons in this situation?
The people too cheap to pay $75 a year for fire protection or the volunteer firefighters?Comment
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yeah really..
when i lived out in eastern maryland. i saw house fires that wernt worth the water to put out as the house was already destroyed. so the fire department would just stand around and watch.
also makes less clean up in the end.Comment
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No, but there is failure to render assistance to a person in danger. I don't live in the US, so I'm not positive that it's applicable there, but it would greatly surprise me if it weren't. At least where I live, you'd be prosecuted.Originally posted by raptor View Post
@RobsanX: Ayn Rand is spinning in her grave. But worse than that, I DO care about helping my neighbors and countrymen. It's the freeloaders who don't care. They're happy to let their neighbors pay the bills while they enjoy the services they don't pay for. They can go to hell.Comment
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This is not a volunteer fire department. It is a municipal fire department whose fire fighters receive a salary. They drove out to the scene, stood and watched while they were being paid, but couldn't be bothered to turn on a hose. They deserve all the condemnation that they receive.Originally posted by justintempler View PostComment
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For those who don't think the South Fulton FD did anything wrong, please read this story about TRUE American heroes...
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/oc...h-a-home-burn/Fire-fighting personnel across East Tennessee seem almost universally outraged by the actions of a small-town fire company on the other end of the state that responded to a house afire but was ordered to let the structure burn because the owner had not paid a $75 subscription fee.
"We don't particularly care who's paid his dues," said Steve Wheeler, chief of the Vonore, Tenn., Fire Department. "If somebody needs help, we help and worry about everything else later."
"Truly, a firefighter cannot stand by and watch something burn," said Doug McClanahan, chief of the Blount County Fire Department. "He can't stand by and not try to react to a fire or rescue. They are trained to take care of people."
The issue gained national attention when firefighters from the South Fulton, Tenn., Fire Department were called to a blaze at the home of Gene Cranick, who lived just outside the city limits in Obion County but within an area in which homeowners can subscribe to the agency's services by paying a $75 annual fee.
Cranick has said in cable television interviews that he forgot to make his payment and that he told responding firefighters he would pay their costs if they would douse the fire at his home.
Broadcast images of the incident show firefighters sitting in their trucks as the house burns to the ground in the background. Their only action was to spray a fence line next to the home of a neighbor who had paid his subscription, according to media reports.
Not all fire-fighting agencies in East Tennessee sell subscriptions for their services, but some that do are adamant that they would never let a structure burn depending on whether the fee had been paid or not.
Among such agencies is Rural/Metro, which handles fire-fighting duties for Knox County under the direction of Chief Jerry Harnish.
The chief said the South Fulton case is a "major topic of discussion" among those in his profession, and he finds it "kind of hard to relate to. People don't join fire departments to not respond to emergencies."
Wheeler's five paid and 15 volunteer firefighters, he said, are driven by the same sense of wanting to help people that causes most to get involved in such potentially dangerous work.
"It's in your blood," he said. "You love it. It's about helping people."
Wheeler said he does not know how the South Fulton team even knew Cranick was not a subscriber.
"We don't ask," he said, adding that he believes the firefighters who responded were probably anxious to attack the flames despite their orders.
Vonore's subscription is $100 a year.
He said his unit would not "let policies and stuff get in the way," and he related a story he heard from a different location in West Tennessee in which firefighters from one jurisdiction responded to a fire that was on the other side of a street that was the dividing line between their area and another agency's.
They let the fire burn until the second agency could respond but ultimately had to pay for the house following litigation.
Blount County residents who fail to subscribe to fire services for $110 will be presented with a hefty bill after firefighters finish their duties at a house fire.
McClanahan said it amounts to $2,200 for the initial call and $1,100 for every hour past the first two that firefighters are on the scene.
Wheeler said his department has no set fee but does ask the homeowner to assign to the fire department any insurance money designated for compensating the fire department.
Harnish said his department's subscription rate averages about 11 cents per square foot of structure, meaning the owner of a 2,500-square-foot home would pay a fee of about $275.
But Knox County's non-subscription charge leaves the others in ashes.
If no subscription is paid, he said, the standard rate is $1,200 per hour for each unit dispatched to the scene.
"And we never send a single engine to a fire," he said. "We send four engines and a ladder truck," meaning the homeowner is charged the hourly fee for each truck.
Knowing that, he said, most people realize it is "more reasonable" to pay the subscription fee.
Robert Wilson is a freelance contributor to the News Sentinel.Comment
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It sure the hell is a volunteer fire department...Originally posted by RobsanX View Post
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39535911/ns/us_news-life/
...Reavis said he operates his all-volunteer, unpaid fire department on $8,000 a year....
Across the county, no cities' tax dollars fund rural fire protection, he said. That's common in many U.S. rural areas, Reavis said, although the notion is not necessarily widely known among people living in urban areas.
A plan for a tax that would cover rural fire protection was rejected, he said, as county officials kept pushing municipalities to opt for subscription plans.
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