Mars

[tom502]

Yep. This is not just made-up crap. The Nazis have flying saucers.

[Mordred]

Well, mankind has done alot, some of it good. But the idea of ET intervention comes through findings of ancient technology that seemingly did not, or should not have existed at such times, or findings wich just baffle modern people, as well as the numerous ancient stories of beings from the skies coming down and doing stuff. So, I don't think it's a modern rationale of what ancients achived, it's what they themselves reported.

You mean stuff like the Baghdad batteries?

Supposing they aren't fake and the dating of around 250BC is correct, then yes, these things may indeed seem baffling to people. How could these primitive people have worked out how batteries work, right? I mean, they were running around in sandals and loincloths...

The fallacy lies in the fact that we have been led to believe that people living 2000 years ago were somehow primitive and that we are somehow enlightened. Nothing could be further from the truth. Egypt, Greece, Rome, all these were extremely civilized, more so than many parts of the earth these days. Most of us think that living in those days must have been horrible, but truth be told, the difference between living in a medium-sized western city today and living in Rome 100BC isn't that big. Plus it's not as if famine, disease and war aren't around today. I can easily imagine learned men (probably not women, sorry gals) of the time coming up with things. Heck, was Thomas Edison's life in 1850 that much different from that of wealthy Romans?

With that in mind, is it surprising that batteries were invented such a long time ago? Yes. But is it inexplicable to the point where we should look for outlandish explanations? Absolutely not.

As for accounts of "beings from the sky", well, it's hard to say, mostly because there are so many eye-witness accounts of fabulous things. People have seen a creature in the Loch Ness that has since evaded both scores of professional scientists and many more amateur crypto-zoologists. Joseph Smith claimed to have been visited by an angel who gave him golden plates telling of Israeli tribes in America and Jesus coming to them, yet nobody else saw them and he read from them by putting his face in his hat. Some have claimed to be privy to galactic history, complete with alien tyrants and loyal officers rebelling against said tyrant. People have seen fairies, aliens and other fantastical creatures. Some will go so far as to claim that they were taken to other planets, there to mate with reptilian aliens, yet not a shred of hard evidence has ever been produced by these people.

Some of these people are just crooks and con-men who, at best, will attempt to sell you a book or attract visitors to their remote location, whereas others will use their fantastical tales to create entire religions. Others are genuinely deluded, mentally unstable and encouraged in their delusions by people who want to sell books to them (or about them, depending). Finally, there's also those people who simply misinterpreted something they truly did see or experience. Where some see con-trails, other see chem-trails.

To sum it up, I would not accept repeated tales of beings from the sky as evidence of alien visitation, anymore than I would accept recurring depictions of dragons in various countries and civilizations as evidence of their existence either.

[Roo]

Nice work, Mordred. Nice to see some intelligent thinking in this most absurd thread.

[sgreger1]

The problem is that everyone is catagorizing things like UFO's the wrong way, and assuming everyone believes in them 100%, same with chemtrails. There is no "proof", only enough anecdotal evidence or second hand reports to where speculation exists. Same thing with dragons, people speculate they exist based on them being noted in many different ancient countries, many of which are thought to have developed independent of each other. Therefore, someone who likes to ponder these things, may wonder to themselves if perhaps dragons and or something that appeared to be a dragon existed in the past and may have just died off.


But none of this is proof. Some people require die hard proof of things before they will believe them, and do not wish to get into the realm of speculation. That is fine to an extent, but some people take it too far, as in they won't believe the earth is round unless a scientist tells them.

I think speculation is healthy in many ways, and is a good exercise in free thinking. However, I think it is counter-productive to BELIEVE your speculation. I, for example, am totally open to the reality that UFO's may be real and aliens may be visiting us, or that dragons may have been real etc, but I don't believe any of it, I am simply open to the concept and like to think about it because it is entertaining.


Tom's problem is that he has arrived at the conclusion that his model of the universe is EXACTLY what he thinks it is, and is not open to the possibility that things may be different. Perception affects reality, which in turn affects your perception. He has delved himself into the belief that nazi's escaped to mars, despite the lack of anything we would normally catagorize as actual "evidence", and because of his belief in this it begins to manifest itself in his life. Now whenever he sees a UFO, he assumes it's nazi's. Every other odd happening is of course tied to nazi's in some way in his perception.

This is the mistake, is to ever fully believe any 1 reality completely and never question it. I am not entirely sure the world even exists, even though scientific evidence would say otherwise. If scientists in a computer game collected evidence and did studies on it, would their conclusions be true in a real sense? Would them observing that gravity exists be correct, when in fact they are just inside of a computer program you built, and they are really just a compilation of 1's and 0's on a cicuitboard in someone's office? Their methods are sound in noticing gravity exists, and their science was done proper, but in the end they were duped by the creator, because they are really just discovering things that the programmer has programmed into existance and for them to discover in a certain predetermined order.

I mean you can never know, and reality is relative to the observer. To them it is reality and the only way, but to the programmer he knows it to be different.


Anyways, let tom post his shit Roo, everyone's at work and you all know you love it.

[tom502]

sgreg wrote:
"Tom's problem is that he has arrived at the conclusion that his model of the universe is EXACTLY what he thinks it is, and is not open to the possibility that things may be different. Perception affects reality, which in turn affects your perception. He has delved himself into the belief that nazi's escaped to mars, despite the lack of anything we would normally catagorize as actual "evidence", and because of his belief in this it begins to manifest itself in his life. Now whenever he sees a UFO, he assumes it's nazi's. Every other odd happening is of course tied to nazi's in some way in his perception. "


Now... this is not really true at all, and I know you know this. I am not a "true believer" of anything. I am an idealist, and I do like certain possibilities, and find them interesting and especially when they have a connection with real "evidence". I do not see a UFO, and think Nazi. I've never seen a UFO in reality, and if I did, I would not know who or what or where it came from. I do think it's possible it could be Nazi related, via the Vril Hollow Earth(this was mentioned on the last Ancient Aliens show), it could be just Vril, could be Pleadians, it's even possible it could be super secret Government craft with reversed tech from the Roswell craft. I do not know if Hitler survived. I think it's possible. No, your quote is totally wrong, because I am Totally Open to ANY possibility. I may like and entertain certain "beliefs", and maybe "belief" is a bad word, as I can "mostly agree with" certain viewpoints, as opposed to others. But I know anything is possibly true, and possibly wrong, even me.

[sgreger1]

sgreg wrote:
"Tom's problem is that he has arrived at the conclusion that his model of the universe is EXACTLY what he thinks it is, and is not open to the possibility that things may be different. Perception affects reality, which in turn affects your perception. He has delved himself into the belief that nazi's escaped to mars, despite the lack of anything we would normally catagorize as actual "evidence", and because of his belief in this it begins to manifest itself in his life. Now whenever he sees a UFO, he assumes it's nazi's. Every other odd happening is of course tied to nazi's in some way in his perception. "


Now... this is not really true at all, and I know you know this. I am not a "true believer" of anything. I am an idealist, and I do like certain possibilities, and find them interesting and especially when they have a connection with real "evidence". I do not see a UFO, and think Nazi. I've never seen a UFO in reality, and if I did, I would not know who or what or where it came from. I do think it's possible it could be Nazi related, via the Vril Hollow Earth(this was mentioned on the last Ancient Aliens show), it could be just Vril, could be Pleadians, it's even possible it could be super secret Government craft with reversed tech from the Roswell craft. I do not know if Hitler survived. I think it's possible. No, your quote is totally wrong, because I am Totally Open to ANY possibility. I may like and entertain certain "beliefs", and maybe "belief" is a bad word, as I can "mostly agree with" certain viewpoints, as opposed to others. But I know anything is possibly true, and possibly wrong, even me.

But Tom, you have made it clear that your dedication to the Nazi UFO/MoonBase/Antarctica/Etc theory is so strong that you throw yourself into the same catagory as religion. Multiple times you have cited it as being somewhat of a religion to you, and are dedicated to believing that it has to be true, even in the absence of material evidence.

You leave it open to interpretation in regards to who is flying the ufo, be it hitler, nazis, vril, pleadians etc, but the one thing you are clearly not open to is the possibility that none of it exists and that Hitler isn't this superhero you imagine him to be.

[tom502]

I differ from others who have beliefs that can be compared with a religious view, is that I don't see what I consider to be possible, or I just happen to like, as the ONE and only WAY, and everyone else is WRONG. And that's a big difference. Belief is different than knowing. If I actually went to NeuSchwabenland and actual met the Vril, and saw the Nazi saucers, then I would KNOW. I do not know. But I do like the idea, and I think the idea is appealing, and possible, and not without "evidential" considerations.

[sgreger1]

I differ from others who have beliefs that can be compared with a religious view, is that I don't see what I consider to be possible, or I just happen to like, as the ONE and only WAY, and everyone else is WRONG. And that's a big difference. Belief is different than knowing. If I actually went to NeuSchwabenland and actual met the Vril, and saw the Nazi saucers, then I would KNOW. I do not know. But I do like the idea, and I think the idea is appealing, and possible, and not without "evidential" considerations.

Fair enough.

[tom502]

I don't say I am right and everyone else is wrong. I say I like this certain idea, because I find it appealing, and makes some sense to me. But I also acknowledge I could be wrong.

[sgreger1]

I don't say I am right and everyone else is wrong. I say I like this certain idea, because I find it appealing, and makes some sense to me. But I also acknowledge I could be wrong.

To be honest i have never heard you tell anyone they are wrong, and are actually one of the most lighthearted and least judgemental posters on this entire forum. My point was just to say that you are absolutely convinced of the nazi/vril paradigm and seem unnafected by attempts to open your mind to other possibilities. Not that theres anything wrong with that.

[tom502]

Thanks, I try to be, and believe I naturally am, open minded and lighthearted. I can disagree with others, but I respect their right to think as they wish. Though you seem more "absolute" than I am. You state, about me: "that you are absolutely convinced of the nazi/vril paradigm", I don't think so, though I think I can see where you might get that. I would not say that I am "absolutely convinced", but I do think it is an exciting possibility, that does have some backing, which I like to entertain, I do think it could be. I think I am more a "thinker" than a "believer".

[tom502]

Tonight!!! Thanksging night, ANCIENT ALIENS on History Channel at 10pm, Aliens and the Third Reich!!!

[CoderGuy]

Tonight!!! Thanksging night, ANCIENT ALIENS on History Channel at 10pm, Aliens and the Third Reich!!!

Just TIVO'ed it, thanks for the heads up (on at 11pm here). Also it's an Ancient Aliens marathon all day.

[TheOneandOnly]

Well, I watched the Aliens and the Third Reich... Everything was 'allegedly' this 'allegedly' that...... Bottum line is... if the Nazi's had all these wonderous powers and weapons, they would have won the war...

[Roo]

Oh so you think the ideas proposed on "Ancient Aliens" are full of shit? No shit? Damn and I thought the show was so factual and intellectually stimulating... It just explains SO much.