POLL: Muslims, you crazy!

[sgreger1]

It's monday, i've been busy, and quite frankly I havn't pissed Roo off enough this month. So to meet my quota:



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,252922.story


Reporting from Beirut —
A majority of Muslims around the world welcome a significant role for Islam in their countries' political life, according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center

According to the survey, majorities in Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan and Nigeria would favor changing current laws to allow stoning as a punishment for adultery, hand amputation for theft and death for those who convert from Islam to another religion. About 85% of Pakistani Muslims said they would support a law segregating men and women in the workplace.



The poll was conducted April 12 to May 7 in seven countries with large Muslim populations. About 8,000 people were interviewed face to face, and the survey has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points for Pakistan and 4 percentage points for the other countries.

[raptor]

There is a trend in Pakistan I know which people believe adhering more closely to sharia law would make the country better/holier (and problems are blamed on the government being too secular). The basis for sharia laws and the Qu'ran itself is almost 1500 years old. They've never been changed, so a lot of the ideals behind such laws were applicable in 600 AD Arabia.

While it is terrible these are growing pains each country will have to suffer themselves, just like Iran is doing right now.

[tom502]

I heard on the news, NPR actually, about this woman in Pakistan, who is a Christian, and she is set to be killed for breaking some Blasphemy law. Islam is a big problem, and we won't free these people(or they won't free themselves) untill they can be freed of Islam.

[raptor]

I heard on the news, NPR actually, about this woman in Pakistan, who is a Christian, and she is set to be killed for breaking some Blasphemy law. Islam is a big problem, and we won't free these people(or they won't free themselves) untill they can be freed of Islam.

It's up to themselves to do that. I think it's wrong that the state commits homicide (death row), but only we can change that, not outside intervention.

[Mykislt]

common misconception - this is due to Islam, it is likely that it is due to low socioeconomic status, more than religion. Islam is not some backwards ape religion, and in my eyes it is no more ridiculous than christianity or judaisim. This opinion stems from knowing muslims, of many countries, and also reading about Islam.

North Korea is inherently atheist, same shit goes down there, where is religion to blame you guys?

[sgreger1]

common misconception - this is due to Islam, it is likely that it is due to low socioeconomic status, more than religion. Islam is not some backwards ape religion, and in my eyes it is no more ridiculous than christianity or judaisim. This opinion stems from knowing muslims, of many countries, and also reading about Islam.

North Korea is inherently atheist, same shit goes down there, where is religion to blame you guys?

God damnit MyKislt, the whole intention of this thread is to rile up Tom until he posts something so completely off the wall about Islam that it will drag Roo into the thread, where Roo will then entertain me via argument with Tom until I have successfully completely my workday.

Please, good sir, some people have 8 hours to burn, and i'll be damned if I do it without Roo's assistance.



/back on topic

Hey Roo, I totally heard that Islamic people kill their first born as part of a sacrifice ritual that is aimed at destroying America because muslims hate our freedom. Debate.

[Roo]

Thanks but no thanks, Sgreger, I'll sit this one out. Except to say, these things you mention have far less to do with Islam itself being an "evil death cult" as Tom likes to call it than they do with myriad socioeconomic, tribal (ethnic), and most importantly, historical factors too numerous, complex, and foreign for you to understand. Much like Mykislt pointed out above.

Pakistani citizens are leaning strongly toward hardline, ultraconservative interpretations of Islam? No shit. Hardly news, but troublesome from a diplomatic standpoint and with this horrible war our leaders insist upon, which increasingly needs to be fought on their side of the border.

Edit: lol, you dumb bastard, I'm actually doing what I get paid to do on this here Monday. I hope you sit and stare at that clock for an eternity, then get distracted last minute by something stupid on the internet and stay way past when you normally get off work, thus wasting your own time, without my help.

[sgreger1]

common misconception - this is due to Islam, it is likely that it is due to low socioeconomic status, more than religion. Islam is not some backwards ape religion, and in my eyes it is no more ridiculous than christianity or judaisim. This opinion stems from knowing muslims, of many countries, and also reading about Islam.

North Korea is inherently atheist, same shit goes down there, where is religion to blame you guys?

Oh, also N korea is not inherently atheist. In the past 60 years they have been relatively anti-religion, but religion is still practiced in N Korea. I agree though, it is lazy to blame everyone's problem's on religion. Religion, fundamentalism, and extremism are mianly borne out of a lack of education and prolonged poverty.

[sgreger1]

Edit: lol, you dumb bastard, I'm actually doing what I get paid to do on this here Monday. I hope you sit and stare at that clock for an eternity, then get distracted last minute by something stupid on the internet and stay way past when you normally get off work, thus wasting your own time, without my help.

LOL, it's only 1:25 and you've already played into my plot Roo. Muuuuahahahaahahahaha!


Yah I found the poll interesting but not surprising. I personally think cutting off a hand for stealing is a very effective way of curbing theft
Really at the end of the day these are soverign nations and while I as a person on the internet think they are "backwards", I am aware of the fact that I likely look equally backward from their point of view, and neither of us are technically wrong. I think the US needs to just let them do their thing, even if we don't think it's right. We used to refer to the concept of going around to everyone elses property and forcing them to become "civilized" as "imperialism" and "colonialism". Apparently now it's our new manifest destiny or something, going around and changing the world like some kind of heroes. Meanwhile we are really just fanning the flame of extremism.

[nachowayne]

I thought we were going to get to vote on whether muslims were crazy or not, with maybe some funny choices to piss folks off. Alas, no polls here.

[raptor]

I think the US needs to just let them do their thing, even if we don't think it's right. We used to refer to the concept of going around to everyone elses property and forcing them to become "civilized" as "imperialism" and "colonialism". Apparently now it's our new manifest destiny or something, going around and changing the world like some kind of heroes. Meanwhile we are really just fanning the flame of extremism.

Probably the most sensible thing you've posted on this forum

[devilock76]

LOL, it's only 1:25 and you've already played into my plot Roo. Muuuuahahahaahahahaha!


Yah I found the poll interesting but not surprising. I personally think cutting off a hand for stealing is a very effective way of curbing theft

So as an extension of that logic would you say that the death penalty "curbs" the murder rate?

Ken

[devilock76]

I thought we were going to get to vote on whether muslims were crazy or not, with maybe some funny choices to piss folks off. Alas, no polls here.

A. Yes
B. No
C. Portion
D. Los
E. None of the above
F. Dip
G. You are Crazy
H. Waiting for Nazi Martians (or is it Martian Nazi's) to come rescue me from the insanity of this hollow earth!

[sgreger1]

Probably the most sensible thing you've posted on this forum

Lol, I say this all the time!

I think a lot of people don't realize the basis of these problems we are combating, and don't really sit down and think about our impact in the eastern regions in regards to whether or not our methods are working. If our goal is to combat extremism, than we should be focusing on efforts/activities that, well, do not promote extremism. However, it appears we having decided to subscribe to the brute force angle instead of the logical one.

"Terrorists", "insurgents", "combatants, "rebels" etc usually come out of the same pool of people, regardless of what the movement is. Usually it's the uneducated, under-educated, or the poor & disenfranchised who get pulled into these causes. Al Quaida recruiting in Afghanistan is almost identical in nature to the bloods or the crypts recruiting in south central Los Angeles. When you have a bunch of poor people living like shit, most of whom don't have a great understanding of how the world around them works, they become easy to manipulate via fear/money. Offer them a job rebeling against the institutions which they percieve to be oppressing them and you instantly create a soldier for life.
Religion is just the method of control here, the real aim of the organization has little to do with religion and more to do with control. This is why the best recruiting area for Islam is the US prison system. You have a bunch of people who feel that they've been done wrong and are looking for an outlet, a cause to throw themselves behind etc etc.


When the united states goes to another country to route out the .01% of individuals who are "terrorists", it works against it's own interests when it manages to kill %1 of the civilian population during it's operations. Why? Because now you have the orriginal .01% of people who you were orriginally fighting against, PLUS you now have the family members of that 1% of the population that you just killed who are all looking for a way to destroy you. This compounds on itself until we've turned an entire country against us. Most people in Iraq/Afghanistan weren't really that opposed to the Americans and really still aren't even after years of war. But imagine you are 12 years old and your mother is killed by an American bomb, caught in the collateral damage from US forces trying to take out a terrorist stronghold in the center of your town. Boom, just like that you are an orphan. 10 years pass, the war still continues. For most of your adult life you have tried to piece together an existence out of the poverty that surrounds you, and yet each day the Americans kill more an more. Your 22 now, an orphan who's parents were killed by the americans, and you have no job. What are we to expect to happen? This young man will now dedicate his life to fighting the imperialists, and he will be funded, supplied, and motivated by anti-US forces to do something with his anger. Next thing you know, little Ackbar is shooting at US soldiers. He gets shot and has died a marty, and now his son will retell the story over and over again about how his father died as a martyr fighting off the imperialist US occupation. It becomes an endless cycle of hate, and will spread for generations to come. By subjecting the Iraq/Afghan population to 10 years of continuous warfare, we are breeding an entire generation of muslim youth who will look at Americans as colonialists. The choices we make today will affect the "hearts and minds" of the people there for generations to come. You reap what you sew and right now we are planting a crop of trouble which will be coming of military age in another 10 years.

Bottom line is that this insurgency is only marginally related to a religious movement, and is really closer to the gang culture we see in our inner city areas. Just poor people being used by their corporate overlords, nothing new really.

[sgreger1]

So as an extension of that logic would you say that the death penalty "curbs" the murder rate?

Ken

The death penalty "reduces" the murder rate, if that's what you mean.