POLL: Muslims, you crazy!

[tom502]

[sgreger1]

Please tell me you think guilty until proven innocent is a good idea, because that's basically what you're promoting here.

Raptor, are you trolling me? Why would you bring in "guilty until proven innocent". We are speaking STRICTLY about people who have ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED of a crime by a jury of their peers. It's more like innocent until proven guilty, and then remaining guilty until proven innocent (that is what an appeal is in essence). They got their due process and a fair and speedy trail, they were not "guilty until proven innocent". These people were already "proven" guilty to the satisfaction of our legal system.

[sgreger1]

Tragedy happens. The results (general justice) override a specific instance of injustice.

[raptor]

The results (general justice) override a specific instance of injustice.

Nope.

[raptor]

What I was saying that believing letting the innocent be imprisoned/executed is better than letting the guilty go free is best supported by a system where the suspects are guilty until proven innocent.

[sgreger1]

Nope.

You would favor letting 50 serial killers go free to save one person who may or may not be innocent? But that results in more injustice for everyone.

Using your model, it is okay to allow 50 to die just to save one man who may or may not be innocent. I think that is unfair and injust.

[raptor]

You base your judgment on probabilities. 50 serial killers may kill again, while 1 innocent man is guaranteed to die.

[Roo]

You've created a monster sgreger. All in my name. And you thought I was gonna waste my time to entertain your ass? LMAO. I checked in periodically today to skim your little gem of an "Islam is evil - turned - capital punishment" thread. Meanwhile I was working my ass off and cleaned out my work email inbox. How's yours looking for tomorrow? Did you even take time to cram down a sandwich between 8 pages of back and forth with devilock and raptor? I'm not even going to pitch my 2 cents on the present topic. I can't give you that satisfaction.

[lxskllr]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure this has been covered, but I'll throw down my thoughts anyway.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. It may seem pedantic, but I always make sure I use the correct term(see below).

We put too many innocent people in jail to have a death penalty. It isn't all "whoops we made a mistake" either. Our system is full of rampant, and blatant fraud.

The legal system here is a joke. We've become a nation of weak cowards, where robbing a 7-11 of $500 with a gun is considered worse than robbing millions of people, of millions of dollars with a pen through violation of trust. The weak rule the earth, and the natural order has been turned upside down.

Petty twats in uniforms and robes have more regard for their careers, and reelections than doing the right thing, and serving justice. It's starts at the top with the highest douchebag in the land, and goes down to the lawyer in a stupid robe that happened to be in the right place at the right time for a promotion, to the cop on a power trip who would be racketeering with the mafia if life had only made a small twist when he was younger.

Nope, we don't have a justice system, and we never did. We have a bunch of failed laws, carried out by failed people, with too many innocents caught in the crossfire.

[Bigblue1]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure this has been covered, but I'll throw down my thoughts anyway.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. It may seem pedantic, but I always make sure I use the correct term(see below).

We put too many innocent people in jail to have a death penalty. It isn't all "whoops we made a mistake" either. Our system is full of rampant, and blatant fraud.

The legal system here is a joke. We've become a nation of weak cowards, where robbing a 7-11 of $500 with a gun is considered worse than robbing millions of people, of millions of dollars with a pen through violation of trust. The weak rule the earth, and the natural order has been turned upside down.

Petty twats in uniforms and robes have more regard for their careers, and reelections than doing the right thing, and serving justice. It's starts at the top with the highest douchebag in the land, and goes down to the lawyer in a stupid robe that happened to be in the right place at the right time for a promotion, to the cop on a power trip who would be racketeering with the mafia if life had only made a small twist when he was younger.

Nope, we don't have a justice system, and we never did. We have a bunch of failed laws, carried out by failed people, with too many innocents caught in the crossfire.

Bravo!

[Joe234]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure this has been covered, but I'll throw down my thoughts anyway.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. It may seem pedantic, but I always make sure I use the correct term(see below).

We put too many innocent people in jail to have a death penalty. It isn't all "whoops we made a mistake" either. Our system is full of rampant, and blatant fraud.

The legal system here is a joke. We've become a nation of weak cowards, where robbing a 7-11 of $500 with a gun is considered worse than robbing millions of people, of millions of dollars with a pen through violation of trust. The weak rule the earth, and the natural order has been turned upside down.

Petty twats in uniforms and robes have more regard for their careers, and reelections than doing the right thing, and serving justice. It's starts at the top with the highest douchebag in the land, and goes down to the lawyer in a stupid robe that happened to be in the right place at the right time for a promotion, to the cop on a power trip who would be racketeering with the mafia if life had only made a small twist when he was younger.

Nope, we don't have a justice system, and we never did. We have a bunch of failed laws, carried out by failed people, with too many innocents caught in the crossfire.

Right. Here's another case.
WESLEY SNIPES LAST INTERVIEW BEFORE PRISON PT. 1 - 6

[tom502]

The problem with the US's "justice" system, is it's all about MONEY, way way way before justice enters the picture. We talk of prisons, these are BIG business, which are usually(all?) privately owned. Mass corruption. Money money money, the true "God" of the USA.

[devilock76]

Fair enough. I also agree that we should end the war on drugs and get our non-serious offenders out of jail and into some other type of punishment. I have always been a big fan of community service. There's lots of trash to be picked up, if you get busted selling drugs or something you should spend the next 5 years walking around solving our pollution problem. Hey, that's a carbon neutral idea! I'm going green!



If we could reserve jail for only the worst offenders, than I would be more than happy to let these people just rot in jail forever. However, if that is the case, than I elect we discontinue healthcare for them and reduce the meals to bread and water. If the jails are filled with truly only the worst ofenders, than they deserve 20 years of slow torture and malnurishment, along with beating and whatever kind of torture one can imagine. I would fully support torture and waterboarding if the prisons were only for murderers and rapists. It may be too lenient, but it's all we got without a death penalty.

I would rather keep them in good health to be able to study their mental process and behavior more accurately. The goal here is to learn from them. That is why there is no rehabilitation or prevention in our justice system, we need to usher in a new system that starts with studying the truly worst of the worst. Note I said study, not torture. It may burn some people up to see a serial child rapist get three squares and a warm bed. But if giving that one subject that prevents the next 10 because we learn more about the patterns, behaviors, and triggers than I am all for that.

If we want crime prevention for the worst sickos we need to learn more about the worst sickos. That is my opinion on the matter. It is not about bleeding heart life is precious (although I do think life is precious). The truly guilty of these horrendous things posses a potential to benefit this society. And when they die, we can dissect them even more to learn more from this. That is all I am saying.

Ken

[devilock76]

But you can't assume that criminals who get off will commit crimes again. Yes, there are repeat offender statistics but those shouldn't be held in balance against sending an innocent person to prison.

The only way your beliefs will be enforced is if we are guilty until proven innocent.

I gotta break paths here, that you can assume. It is like the second recidivism statistic sgreger posted, why did the rapist who did not get caught the first time because no charge was filed do it a second time. Reward principle, they got away with it so why not think they will keep getting away with it. We are pretty simple like that in an operand conditioning scenario.

I think what you are trying to say though is not we find more people not guilty from the onset but that we have the opportunity of life in prison to fix an error in favor of the innocent. It is not that we set more guilty free in that case but that we allow the opportunity for the innocent to later be exhonerated and compensated in a manner the death penalty just does not allow.

Ken

[devilock76]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure this has been covered, but I'll throw down my thoughts anyway.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. It may seem pedantic, but I always make sure I use the correct term(see below).

We put too many innocent people in jail to have a death penalty. It isn't all "whoops we made a mistake" either. Our system is full of rampant, and blatant fraud.

The legal system here is a joke. We've become a nation of weak cowards, where robbing a 7-11 of $500 with a gun is considered worse than robbing millions of people, of millions of dollars with a pen through violation of trust. The weak rule the earth, and the natural order has been turned upside down.

Petty twats in uniforms and robes have more regard for their careers, and reelections than doing the right thing, and serving justice. It's starts at the top with the highest douchebag in the land, and goes down to the lawyer in a stupid robe that happened to be in the right place at the right time for a promotion, to the cop on a power trip who would be racketeering with the mafia if life had only made a small twist when he was younger.

Nope, we don't have a justice system, and we never did. We have a bunch of failed laws, carried out by failed people, with too many innocents caught in the crossfire.

QFT!!!

Ken