Pharmaceutical Industry .. some thoughts ....

[sgreger1]

My use has been very sporadic to null because I really dont like the anxiety peak but it sounds like there are now strains out there that might work for me. I have multiple friends who smoke MJ from morning til night, everyday, everynight and every waking moment. Many times because of job interviews, illness or probabtion they have all stopped cold turkey with no withdrawls.

THC seems to be a very strange drug in the addiction department.

Yah, I am quite impressed with the availability of strains that work for people with panix attack issues. That was my biggest fear. The first time I smoked it was like the smallest puff of smoke ever because I was so scared the panic attacks would come back. Luckily they are nonexistant no matter how much I smoke now. I am not sure if it's the strain or what, but it went away. Panic attacks are psychological anyways so there may be something else behind it. Perhaps I am just not scared of them any more.


As far as addiction, if you people are out to crucify anything that could be psychologically addictive, TCH is on the bottom of the list. You must first abolish television, exercise, sex, good tasting food, etc etc. Hell, money can be psychologically addictive, let's abstain from that too.


There is a witch hunt afoot, but this ain't salem and I will not tolerate it. Still waiting for someone to publish some literature that disproves anything i'm saying. Not some article in a newspaper either, something that speaks to specifics.

[sgreger1]

isn't this



just a mild version of this?






good job bro. in the fat chick example, I would pretty much say that that is the definition of ice cream addiction. And just to clarify I do not wish that marijuana or anything addictive should be illegal, in fact I support legalization of all drugs. And I do not want to demonize marijuana, and I definitely don't claim that it's 'bad' (I don't view the world in bad or good, and besides it is subjective), it's just that I'm sick of reading about people who think that marijuana is all good and doesn't have it's downsides, and that psychological addiction ain't no thang.


in your mind, there is no possibility that they are psychologically addicted. naive

Okay, I see where your coming from. I am not trying to say there is 0 downside, but what I am saying is that the downside is comparable to any other thing you consume on a daily basis or that makes you happy. Hell, there is a down side to exercising too much, but the Dr won't ever tell you to quit exercising.

I am not saying it's not psychologically addictive, i'm saying that being psychologically addicted to something is really more about YOU (the user) than Marijuana (the plant). People who have trouble quitting having trouble because it is hard for them to cope with life without having something there to ease the pain (if you will). If not MJ, it will be substituted by alcohol or something else. This is not caused by MJ, but is rather a symptom of underlying issues with the user.

When I hear "addictive", quitting cold turkey with no physical or serious psychological consequences doesn't come to mind, yet that is the case with MJ. Perhaps you are addicted to sucking your thumb? I mean, you quit cold turkey when you were 3 and it's been 40 years since you sucked your thumb as a kid, but at one point you were addicted, perhaps we should make sucking your thumb a scheduled narcotic?

[Mykislt]

I am not saying it's not psychologically addictive, i'm saying that being psychologically addicted to something is really more about YOU (the user) than Marijuana (the plant)

it's 100% about 'you the user'

People who have trouble quitting having trouble because it is hard for them to cope with life without having something there to ease the pain (if you will). If not MJ, it will be substituted by alcohol or something else. This is not caused by MJ, but is rather a symptom of underlying issues with the user.

that is the point being made in this study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_park , I would be surprised if it didn't apply to mj.

When I hear "addictive", quitting cold turkey with no physical or serious psychological consequences doesn't come to mind

withdrawal symptoms are not the only aspect of addiction, and people DO get mild withdrawal symptoms from marijuana sometimes.

I guess what we are arguing about is whether marijuana addiction is serious or not, and like I said in my first post

The fact that mj may cause psychological addiction is not scary, because it is not harmful to the body, nor does the tolerance skyrocket, nor does it cost a lot, so even if you are addicted, it doesn't matter that much.

but there are awful cases, when marijuana, or the use of it, can seriously negatively affect a persons life, and it's lazy to play it off as the person having no self control, because even if that may be the case sometimes, it would be stupid to ignore the role of marijuana in it.

[raptor]

I don't know enough about cannabis to gauge whether it (THC) is an addictive substance or not. And if it is, certainly much less than the legal drugs (nicotine, caffeine and alcohol).

[sgreger1]

but there are awful cases, when marijuana, or the use of it, can seriously negatively affect a persons life, and it's lazy to play it off as the person having no self control, because even if that may be the case sometimes, it would be stupid to ignore the role of marijuana in it.

And i'm sure there are awefull cases where people can't stop eating twinkies as well. I'm saying, don't blame the twinkie, the twinkie itself isn't the issue. Millions of people eat twinkies every day and it causes no problems. But then theres that one guy that eats too many twinkies and kill someone, and suddenly the lawyers are in court arguing about how the twinkies made him do it.


Protip: It wasn't the twinky that made him kill his wife or not study for his finals.



This is the same issue I have when explaining to people why I use Snus instead of smoking. They are like "but it's still addictive, plus it has nicotene which is shown in studies to cause cancer and x,y,z". Meanwhile, it's barely harmfull relative to other substances in it's class, and while some guy may claim he didn't show up to work or go to class because he was too busy on the couch snusing, it doesn't mean snus is actually causing those problems, because the other 99.9% of us snus every day and it doesn't affect our lives.





But, ultimately you are correct. Even if the shit was addictive like crack, it wouldn't really matter. It isn't very bad for you, it's pretty cheap, and it doesn't make you beat your wife or kill someone in a car accident. So all in all, it really doens't matter.

[sgreger1]

I don't know enough about cannabis to gauge whether it (THC) is an addictive substance or not. And if it is, certainly much less than the legal drugs (nicotine, caffeine and alcohol).

In study after study comparing cannabis to various other drugs (both legal and illegal), it is consistently revealed that it gets the lowest score (for beign least addictive) out of any substance it's put next to. There have been so many studies on this, and MJ is ALWAYS at the bottom of the list, under caffein, sugar etc. I cannot believe we are debating the adictiveness of this, as opposed to debating how we should all stop eating sugar because it can be addictive. If that was our logic as a community, there would be no sweet foods, as all sugar products have an abuse potential, especially in minors.

Gasp... and what if, just like in the study precious presented, one were to consume sugar in large quantities over an extended period of time. Addictiveness is the least of our problems, what about tooth decay and affects on the heart! What about the stimulant properties, the mood swings and the fatigue caused by the sugar rush and crash? <<<------ We don't talk about shit like that, or even consider making something like sugar illegal, so why would we treat weed differently?



I cannot reinforce this enough: MJ is no more addictive, psychologically or physically, than eating meat. Try going all vegan from now on, no more meat, FOREVER. It would kind of piss you off at first, and it wouldn't taste quite as good, but eventually you would get over it. But in the back of your mind, you will always be like, "damn, I wish I had some meat right now..."

[snusgetter]

Adding fuel to the flames...

I don't know enough about cannabis to gauge whether it (THC) is an addictive substance or not. And if it is, certainly much less than the legal drugs (nicotine, caffeine and alcohol).

How Does Marijuana Affect the Brain?

Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to the brain and other organs throughout the body.

THC acts upon specific sites in the brain, called cannabinoid receptors, kicking off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the "high" that users experience when they smoke marijuana. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. The highest density of cannabinoid receptors are found in parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thinking, concentrating, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.

Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problemsolving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that, in chronic users, marijuana's adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.

Research into the effects of long-term cannabis use on the structure of the brain has yielded inconsistent results. It may be that the effects are too subtle for reliable detection by current techniques. A similar challenge arises in studies of the effects of chronic marijuana use on brain function. Brain imaging studies in chronic users tend to show some consistent alterations, but their connection to impaired cognitive functioning is far from clear. This uncertainty may stem from confounding factors such as other drug use, residual drug effects, or withdrawal symptoms in long-term chronic users.

Addictive Potential

Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction; that is, compulsive drug seeking and abuse despite the known harmful effects upon functioning in the context of family, school, work, and recreational activities. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent) and among daily users (25-50 percent).

Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report withdrawal symptoms including: irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which can make it difficult to remain abstinent. These symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2-3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation.

[sgreger1]

How Does Marijuana Affect the Brain?

Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to the brain and other organs throughout the body.

THC acts upon specific sites in the brain, called cannabinoid receptors, kicking off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the "high" that users experience when they smoke marijuana. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. The highest density of cannabinoid receptors are found in parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thinking, concentrating, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.

Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problemsolving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that, in chronic users, marijuana's adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.

Research into the effects of long-term cannabis use on the structure of the brain has yielded inconsistent results. It may be that the effects are too subtle for reliable detection by current techniques. A similar challenge arises in studies of the effects of chronic marijuana use on brain function. Brain imaging studies in chronic users tend to show some consistent alterations, but their connection to impaired cognitive functioning is far from clear. This uncertainty may stem from confounding factors such as other drug use, residual drug effects, or withdrawal symptoms in long-term chronic users.

Addictive Potential

Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction; that is, compulsive drug seeking and abuse despite the known harmful effects upon functioning in the context of family, school, work, and recreational activities. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent) and among daily users (25-50 percent).

Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report withdrawal symptoms including: irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which can make it difficult to remain abstinent. These symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2-3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation.

*CITATION NEEDED*


When I quit, all of the effects went away in about 2-3 days, and after about a week I stopped even thinking about wanting it. It was literally effortless, and I have an EXTREMELY addictive personality. I had a little trouble falling asleep sober for a few days, but that was about it. I fail to see how this is any worse than snus...




Some people claim that when quitting smoking weed, they feel symptoms similar to cesation of smoking tobacco. If that's the case for you, than I guess that's what you will have to deal with. I don't know, for me the two are WORLDS apart. I mean I could easily not smoke MJ at any given time and it wouldn't bother me the slightest, but try going a while without snus and I start feeling the pain. I just don't see how some can see it as being as addictive as cigarettes.

[snusgetter]

*CITATION NEEDED*


I can post to a bunch of news articles saying it's all rainbows and unicorns too. Please provide some type of research on it that corroborates these claims.

Just click on the link provided if you're really interested in their citations.
They're at the bottom of the page!!


btw, many's the times you post your info as facts and I'd be hard-pressed
to find links in support of most of them.
Just sayin'.

[sgreger1]

Just click on the link provided if you're really interested in their citations.
They're at the bottom of the page!!


btw, many's the times you post your info as facts and I'd be hard-pressed
to find links in support of most of them.
Just sayin'.

I can't access your link from work, but my bad, I didn't even realize it was a link in the first place.


Let me post what I am assuming they are citing however:

A Within-Subject Comparison of Withdrawal Symptoms During Abstinence From Cannabis, Tobacco, and Both Substances
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2214670/?tool=pmcentrez


The conclusion is that people smoke tobacco, who also smoke MJ, report similar withdrawl symptoms (based on a group of 12 individuals in the study). The point however, is that for those that do report these symptoms, they go away after a day or two and are never seen or heard of again. Hardly a big deal if you ask me. And also supports my statement that tobacco withdrawl is worse because it lasts much longer and is much more intense.




I promised to post links to research when I get home, which is why I am stating facts right now without citing evidence. This is because I am not around a computer which I can use for this particular subject.

[sgreger1]

Bottom Line:

• MJ has medicinal uses, for many diseases/conditions
• The health risks posed by MJ are insignificant when compared with pharmaceutical drugs which treat the same conditions
• MJ is one of the least addictive substances, and only causes extremely short term "withdrawal" symptoms in some users. They aren't as hungry or as tired for a day or two, but after that they are fine
• MJ, when we look at it in context with other susbtances, is extremely bening.
• Snus is a thousand times worse than MJ, yet everyone here seems okay with that risk because even snus isn't really that big of a deal. The salt in the portions is likely more damaging than the snus itself.

I don't smoke during work hours, and I only smoke in the evinings after 5pm. If MJ is so addictive, than why do I go to work and not crave it at all, nor do I have any withdrawl symptoms. if MJ is as addictive as cigarettes, and if the withdrawl is just as bad, than how come I can easily go all day without MJ, yet I cannot go all day without snus?

[snusgetter]

sgreger1, your points are well taken.

I didn't post that info because I necessarily agree with it. There's always more than
one side to an issue and theirs happen to carry quite a bit of weight. As in most
things, research can always be skewed to present only one side of an issue.

I'm all for legalization and let the consumer be the decision maker!!

[sgreger1]

sgreger1, your points are well taken.

I didn't post that info because I necessarily agree with it. There's always more than
one side to an issue and theirs happen to carry quite a bit of weight. As in most
things, research can always be skewed to present only one side of an issue.

I'm all for legalization and let the consumer be the decision maker!!

I totally know what you mean. I fought on the other side for many years, but I have changed my position in light of new evidence.


Bottom line people:

Death caused by ( year 2000):

Tobacco: 435,000

Alcohol: 85,000 direct deaths (not those caused in alcohol related injuries or car accidents)

Non-Steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (such as aspirin): 7,600 deaths

Death due to adverse reaction to a prescribed pharmaceutical taken as Dr recommended: 32,000

Marijuana: 0


/Math. How does it work???

[sgreger1]

Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.

Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.

Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.

Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.

[sgreger1]

Substantial research exists regarding marijuana and addiction. While the scientific community has yet to achieve full consensus on this matter, the majority of epidemiological and animal data demonstrate that the reinforcing properties of marijuana in humans is low in comparison to other drugs of abuse, including alcohol and nicotine. According to the U.S. Institute of Medicine (IOM), fewer than one in 10 marijuana smokers become regular users of the drug, and most voluntary cease their use after 34 years of age. By comparison, 15 percent of alcohol consumers and 32 percent of tobacco smokers exhibit symptoms of drug dependence.

According to the Institute Of Medicine, observable cannabis withdrawal symptoms are rare and have only been identified under unique patient settings. These remain limited to adolescents in treatment facilities for substance abuse problems, and in a research setting where subjects were given marijuana or THC daily. Compared with the profound physical syndrome of alcohol or heroin withdrawal, marijuana-related withdrawal symptoms are mild and subtle. Symptoms may include restlessness, irritability, mild agitation and sleep disruption. However, for the overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers, these symptoms are not severe enough to re-initiate their use of cannabis.