Wiki-Warning – Little Green Men Coming

[devilock76]

I meant mainly on a scientific and technological field of shaping out modern world. I mean, everything we have today, that we take for granted, be it TV, jet planes, rockets, missles, computers, etc.

Yes on Jet planes, rockets, and missles (rockets with a weapon payload). But truly the Television was invented by an american before we entered WWII and it's mass production was actually delayed because of WWII. AS for computers, I see no correlation there either. Perhaps you can corroborate such assertions?!?

Ken

[sgreger1]

Now I here I go and play the other counter point:

reminds me of back in fall of '99. A friend of mine sends a pseudo chain msg out about how Time magazine is doing an online poll over the most influential person of the 20th century. The letter encouraged people to vote as a bunch of "Neo-Nazi's" were voting for Hitler and this was considered "unacceptable". I wrote back that the poll asks for influential, but did not ask good or bad, and in that case Hitler did very much influence the 20th century and in fact is influencing the 21st century. Everything from VW to our own highway system to the middle easy and Israel to the rise of the Iron curtain to the UN to the Asian world to America's own rise to become a super power in numerous ways direct and indirect tie to WWII and in many ways WWII was what it was because of Hitler, of course maybe if he didn't exist there would have been another sadistic fanatic to take his place. I went so far as to say I found Billy Graham being number 3 on the list to be more disconcerting.

Did they create our modern world, no, but WWII has and is still shaping our modern world especially in the global social/political aspects.

Ken

But that carn hardly be attributed to Hitler. He was a piece of the puzzle, but his goal was to not do all the things you listed. Tom is saying they are responsible for building the modern world because they were so advanced and therefore invented everything cool. I am saying that it isn't true. Hitler's charade invoked all of the things we see today, but that doens't mean he is the real reason for it. A meteor crashed onto earth and killed the dinosaurs a few million years ago, and switched the climate, leading eventually to intellegence and homo sapien sapien being formed. Should we praise asteroids for creating the modern world?

[sgreger1]

Yes on Jet planes, rockets, and missles (rockets with a weapon payload). But truly the Television was invented by an american before we entered WWII and it's mass production was actually delayed because of WWII. AS for computers, I see no correlation there either. Perhaps you can corroborate such assertions?!?

Ken

Yah, they made badass military stuff, but I don't see how you can attribute the invention of computers or television to the nazi's. And what happened in our space program happened because we spent the money and dedicated the resources necessary to make it happen. The scientists were only a piece of the puzzle that led to the space program. And there's no saying we wouldn't have figured it out aynways.

[tom502]

On Ancient Aliens, last night, they said the Nazis invented the TV, Computers, jets, rockets, cruise missles, ballistic missles, they sent the 1st rocket into space. I don't know all the historical details, I am just repeating what the show said.

[devilock76]

But that carn hardly be attributed to Hitler. He was a piece of the puzzle, but his goal was to not do all the things you listed. Tom is saying they are responsible for building the modern world because they were so advanced and therefore invented everything cool. I am saying that it isn't true. Hitler's charade invoked all of the things we see today, but that doens't mean he is the real reason for it. A meteor crashed onto earth and killed the dinosaurs a few million years ago, and switched the climate, leading eventually to intellegence and homo sapien sapien being formed. Should we praise asteroids for creating the modern world?

Causality is not defined by intent, direct or otherwise. The sun does not exist so that you can get a tan in the summer, but yet it still does that.

Ken

[devilock76]

On Ancient Aliens, last night, they said the Nazis invented the TV, Computers, jets, rockets, cruise missles, ballistic missles, they sent the 1st rocket into space. I don't know all the historical details, I am just repeating what the show said.

<full on sarcasm>Well if it is on TV it MUST be true!!!</full on sarcasm>

Ken

[tom502]

You can say that about any medium for information.

[devilock76]

You can say that about any medium for information.

That is why one should use multiple sources that also allow one to corroborate their research material. This is why science papers are peer reviewed and TV shows have editors and Neilson figures.

Also you are the only one here regurgitating as fact something you saw on a TV show.

Ken

[sgreger1]

Causality is not defined by intent, direct or otherwise. The sun does not exist so that you can get a tan in the summer, but yet it still does that.

Ken

Okay, I can see how germany's antics resulted in a world war that cost the lives of millions, but did also result in governments throwing massive amounts of cash into defense research, which innevitably led to the atom bomb, the space program, and many of the commercial goodies we enjoy here on the street. But America was also part of that war, and actually brought those programs to fruition (and paid for the whole thing), so technically the US holds and equal stake in all of those things you listed.

[sgreger1]

You can say that about any medium for information.

Watching a show that is trying to prove a certain thing means they have obviouse bias, just like watching fox news obviously comes with a certain amount of right wing bias. That's true, but I wouldn't take everything they say as fact. Lots of things are "ommitted" in those shows I noticed. Like on one ancient aliens, they showed this picture of egyptian hyrogliphics found on a tomb somewhere that appears to look like a plane and helicopter plus a UFO. They cite this as evidence for the ancient astronaut theory, but completely forget to mention that those were palimpsets, and actually part of the egyptian language, and the message they depict has nothing to do with aliens. But since it looks like a picture of a helicopter, they report is as obviously corroborating their alien theory.


My point is that they don't even try to obtain a reasonable explanation for anything before they jump to the conclusion that aliens did it.

[sgreger1]

I watched a show on fox one time about how the moon landing was hoaxed. I was impressed, even convinced that it was true. Then I researched it, and it turns out that the show was depicting a very 1 sided version of the story, and that almost everything they said had been thoroughly debunked (yet they failed to mention that in their show). I just wouldn't trust everything you see on TV or in a documentary.

[Roo]

For God's sake it is a television show that succeeds by building a viewership of like-minded individuals. It's goal is to pull people into the subject matter and give provide enough intrigue to keep these people coming back and improving ratings.

Having said that, here you go Tom, you're going to like this link. Well, at least the parts that validate your claims. It was apparently published by a journal funded by.... (wait for it, not gonna believe it)..... the Anti Defamation League. I did not read the whole thing thoroughly, I skimmed it. There is a paragraph or two that relates to tobacco as well. God I can't believe we are talking about the ****ing Nazi contributions to science again. What is this the 31st thread that devolved into an identical discussion?

http://www.adl.org/braun/dim_14_1_nazi_med.asp

The problem with the "science vs. fascism" thesis is that it fails to take into account the eagerness with which many scientists and physicians embraced the Reich, and the many scientific disciplines which actually flourished under the Nazis. Anyone who has ever examined a V-2 engine will have few doubts about this, and there are numerous other examples. During the Nazi era, German scientists and engineers either developed or greatly improved television, jet-propelled aircraft (including the ejection seat), guided missiles, electronic computers, the electron microscope, atomic fission, data-processing technologies, pesticides, and, of course, the world's first industrial murder complexes. The first magnetic tape recording was of a speech by Hitler, and the nerve gases Sarin and Tabun were Nazi inventions.

[tom502]

Well, it just goes to show, all this is pretty much fact.

[sgreger1]

Yah, I don't think anyone's saying they didn't have a crack team of scientists, but what I am saying is that they didn't build the modern world.


We had an oppressive government that happened to have an affinity for science (military science mainly), and they spent a lot of money in it. Therefore a lot of shit got done.


This is what happens when you fund science, cool shit gets invented. This is why we need to start funding stem cell research and stop bailing out the banks. The science developed by this generation will greatly benefit the next generation, as well as provide them with a jumping off point to figure out more cool stuff.

[sgreger1]

Well, it just goes to show, all this is pretty much fact.

The only fact is that the nazi's had great scientists, and together (in corroboration with the US), helped bring us a lot of the military dominance we see today. Too bad for them though,, because they weren't good enough to win the war. We beat them with inferior weapons technology, yet still won in the end. Then we took their science dept and fused it with ours to create the worlds best science team.



Absolutely NONE of this, however, proves anything about NAZI UFO's. If they had UFO's they would have won the war. That is the end of the story. It would have been impossible for them to lose if they had them.



Explain to me how the germans went from inventing the first jets and ejection seats, to building interstellar UFO's based on a completely unknown type of physics, all in less than 10 years? I just don't see that happening.

Then, if they did it, how come there is no record of it? We have 2 guys making some claims and that's about it.