Corruption

[chadizzy1]

Hell....even the leaders of SnusOn are corrupt.



just sayin

Aren't you a moderator? :P

And now for something completely random to derail this thread which will end in mindless political bickering.

[tom502]

Like that BP/Halliburton/Corexit connections.

I think the US is BIG corruption.

[precious007]

What;s this world coming to?

[Premium Parrots]

What;s this world coming to?

a swift end

[precious007]

a swift end

Hopefully NOT ...

We're still young some of us :^)

[sgreger1]

Pretty sad to hear that it's everywhere in the world... I mean almost everywhere.

It's always been like this in every country. The more you learn about how things change over time, the more you realize that nothing actually changes. It seems to just be the nature of mankind.

Apparently a lot of people are living well, but they are just sold to the bank for the next 30 - 50 years ... I mean that's no way to live... everyone's complaining about not having money and that's because of the huge debts that they don't afford in the first place....

A lot of people are in too much debt, and it is what cripples our economy in times like this. A man with a farm and no debt is rich during a recession, but Americans are no longer farmers, and are now just living in the suburbs off debt.

I don't have any debt but still feel broke. I mean I live pretty comfortably compared to 90% of the world I think, but I would hardly consider myself as "middle class" as I would like. I mean we can't afford private schools or anything, and nowadays (at least in CA) public schools are a waste of time. Still, I think the american middle class likes to bitch a lot, but we still have it pretty good. That will likely change in the future, as wage disparity is growing quickly, and the divide between the rich and the poor is becoming more polar.

[snusgetter]

Hopefully NOT ...

We're still young some of us :^)

Are you insinuating that PP is an old fart??

[precious007]

It's always been like this in every country. The more you learn about how things change over time, the more you realize that nothing actually changes. It seems to just be the nature of mankind.








A lot of people are in too much debt, and it is what cripples our economy in times like this. A man with a farm and no debt is rich during a recession, but Americans are no longer farmers, and are now just living in the suburbs off debt.

I don't have any debt but still feel broke. I mean I live pretty comfortably compared to 90% of the world I think, but I would hardly consider myself as "middle class" as I would like. I mean we can't afford private schools or anything, and nowadays (at least in CA) public schools are a waste of time. Still, I think the american middle class likes to bitch a lot, but we still have it pretty good. That will likely change in the future, as wage disparity is growing quickly, and the divide between the rich and the poor is becoming more polar.

It also depends on what you consider middle ... or luxury class....

I mean a middle class person would not afford a private school anywhere in this world.

I just happened to go to an English private school in Oslo that was payed off by my father's employer ... (otherwise we wouldn't afford it anyway)

Roughly $15,000 a year ... I suppose it was...

Speaking of private school/kindergarden here in Romania.... only the rich afford to pay 200 - 400 euros a month just to send their kids to kindergarden....

Speaking of money.... I guess $3000 is middle class pretty much anywhere in the world..... and if one knows how to manage his income effectively .... then everything is ok....

Just a word of wisdon :-) ---- The poor get poorer these days for obvious reasons. First of all they're sold to the bank for next .... 20 - 50 years.... They spend their money on 50 inches plasmas, luxury cars, apparel, clothing, vacations and so on and then the bank comes every month to collect the money .....

I am completely against these debts... I don't even care if someone can't make his own family and then goes running to the bank ..... I you can't afford a family/ a kid then just don't do it.... I personally never been in debt and always had my own money ... true enough I don't have my own 200 squared metres house and I'm not even near owning it.... (too expensive, probably $1.000.000 or so ... with the actual prices) .... but I live decently... and better than many others in this part of Europe.... but still I don't have enough.. a house primaly my own target is impossible for now... I probably will have to go in debt for the next 50 years with a monthly charge of $1000 ... and it's insane :|

Are you insinuating that PP is an old fart?

Hahhaha

No

I don't know his age, but I know he's got Offroad Vanilla in his stash :-) Or he used to

I respect old people :-)

[sgreger1]

It also depends on what you consider middle ... or luxury class....

I mean a middle class person would not afford a private school anywhere in this world.

I just happened to go to an English private school in Oslo that was payed off by my father's employer ... (otherwise we wouldn't afford it anyway)

Roughly $15,000 a year ... I suppose it was...

Speaking of private school/kindergarden here in Romania.... only the rich afford to pay 200 - 400 euros a month just to send their kids to kindergarden....

Speaking of money.... I guess $3000 is middle class pretty much anywhere in the world..... and if one knows how to manage his income effectively .... then everything is ok....

Just a word of wisdon :-) ---- The poor get poorer these days for obvious reasons. First of all they're sold to the bank for next .... 20 - 50 years.... They spend their money on 50 inches plasmas, luxury cars, apparel, clothing, vacations and so on and then the bank comes every month to collect the money .....

I am completely against these debts... I don't even care if someone can't make his own family and then goes running to the bank ..... I you can't afford a family/ a kid then just don't do it.... I personally never been in debt and always had my own money ... true enough I don't have my own 200 squared metres house and I'm not even near owning it.... (too expensive, probably $1.000.000 or so ... with the actual prices) .... but I live decently... and better than many others in this part of Europe.... but still I don't have enough.. a house primaly my own target is impossible for now... I probably will have to go in debt for the next 50 years with a monthly charge of $1000 ... and it's insane :|



Hahhaha

No

I don't know his age, but I know he's got Offroad Vanilla in his stash :-) Or he used to

I respect old people :-)

Considering the distance between us, it would be good to lay out what "middle class" is in America, or at least what people consider to be middle class. It varies heavily by region, like for example living in california will cost you tripple what it will cost in alabama. Where I live, a 3 bedroom house is about $5,000 a month (in a lower end, working class kind of neighborhood which is mainly littered with illegal immegrants from mexico). That's a lot of money, which is why I live in an apartment. A 2 bedroom apartment is $1,700 a month (not including utilities like water, gas, garbage, sewage, etc etc).


Here, if you make 90k a year, you are solidly middle class, but it's not enough to buy a house. Me and my wife combined make about that, so we live comfortably, but that's because we have no debt and manage our money well. We pull in about 3k a month, but we pay $1,100 a month just for our 2 year old to be babysat while we work. Once they get to kindergarden it becomes more expensive.


I was brought up in a lower-middle class family in long beach california, but they were able to put me through private school up untill I was in my teens, mainly because the private school in the ghetto there was only like $1,000 a month which was barely manageable for them, but they were just able to get by. I've only lived in a house once in my entire life, even when my parents were together and both working. Isn't that sad that a family on a duel income can't even afford a 2 bedroom house in a bad neighborhood?




Middle class here means you've got a car, you've got some nice things, you've probably got a house your parents bought back when it was cheap, or else you live in an apartment. Middle class here in California is probably anyone (or family) making about $2,500-$3,000k a month after taxes. I couldn't imagine living in CA on like 30 grand a year, but people do it. It mainly means living in filth and squalor but the government usually picks up the tab for them anyways. When you make that little you get cheaper housing and free food and money from the government so it makes it a little easier I guess. But the rest of us are out of luck.

[precious007]

Considering the distance between us, it would be good to lay out what "middle class" is in America, or at least what people consider to be middle class. It varies heavily by region, like for example living in california will cost you tripple what it will cost in alabama. Where I live, a 3 bedroom house is about $5,000 a month (in a lower end, working class kind of neighborhood which is mainly littered with illegal immegrants from mexico). That's a lot of money, which is why I live in an apartment. A 2 bedroom apartment is $1,700 a month (not including utilities like water, gas, garbage, sewage, etc etc).


Here, if you make 90k a year, you are solidly middle class, but it's not enough to buy a house. Me and my wife combined make about that, so we live comfortably, but that's because we have no debt and manage our money well. We pull in about 3k a month, but we pay $1,100 a month just for our 2 year old to be babysat while we work. Once they get to kindergarden it becomes more expensive.


I was brought up in a lower-middle class family in long beach california, but they were able to put me through private school up untill I was in my teens, mainly because the private school in the ghetto there was only like $1,000 a month which was barely manageable for them, but they were just able to get by. I've only lived in a house once in my entire life, even when my parents were together and both working. Isn't that sad that a family on a duel income can't even afford a 2 bedroom house in a bad neighborhood?




Middle class here means you've got a car, you've got some nice things, you've probably got a house your parents bought back when it was cheap, or else you live in an apartment. Middle class here in California is probably anyone (or family) making about $2,500-$3,000k a month after taxes. I couldn't imagine living in CA on like 30 grand a year, but people do it. It mainly means living in filth and squalor but the government usually picks up the tab for them anyways. When you make that little you get cheaper housing and free food and money from the government so it makes it a little easier I guess. But the rest of us are out of luck.

Quite tough times we're living sgreger ...

I mean an average salary here in Romania is roughly $400 and the prices are some of the highest in the world.... including houses ... groceries ... pretty much everything ... In all parts of the U.S life is cheaper than it is here (one thing that is probably cheaper here in Romania are the utilities ... bills ... ) .... the rest is just so damn expensive...

If you with 9K a month can't afford a house what about an average person in Romania...... by the way life in Greece/Bulgaria for example isn't much sweeter than it is here....

This is what you can buy here by the Black Sea ... with 150,000 EURO http://www.ro-imobile.ro/imobiliare/...CONSTANTA.html

[Mykislt]

once again: dick size contest

[truthwolf1]

America will look like Russia pretty soon. I am giving it a decade from now. You will have more and more people living with their parents and a college education will be needed to become a dishwasher or gas station clerk if you are lucky. Everything will look more like Las Vegas and it's ghetto's with a small rich upper class and a large under class living mostly in poverty. There will be no more mass consumerism but only bare essentials like (food) will be sought after. Government handouts which once were very lucrative will be extremely downsized because of the number of citizens on them.
Whatever or wherever or how much you thought your house was worth during the peak of materialism/corruption/greed is all only a memory for what is to come.
Pessimistic? Yes.

[precious007]

once again: dick size contest

lol

No .. it's a reality :P

I mean it's quite disappointing but that's how it is these days :-)

[sgreger1]

Quite tough times we're living sgreger ...

I mean an average salary here in Romania is roughly $400 and the prices are some of the highest in the world.... including houses ... groceries ... pretty much everything ... In all parts of the U.S life is cheaper than it is here (one thing that is probably cheaper here in Romania are the utilities ... bills ... ) .... the rest is just so damn expensive...

If you with 9K a month can't afford a house what about an average person in Romania...... by the way life in Greece/Bulgaria for example isn't much sweeter than it is here....

This is what you can buy here by the Black Sea ... with 150,000 EURO http://www.ro-imobile.ro/imobiliare/...CONSTANTA.html

Wow, that is really bad. $400? Jesus christ, you guys have it way worse than here. That is what I was saying orriginally, is that the "middle class" in America still lives pretty nice compared to the "middle class" of other countries. I could never imagine getting by on $400. I mean literally I spend that on gas lol. Good luck to you out in Romania, do you guys have the lottery out there?

[precious007]

Wow, that is really bad. $400? Jesus christ, you guys have it way worse than here. That is what I was saying orriginally, is that the "middle class" in America still lives pretty nice compared to the "middle class" of other countries. I could never imagine getting by on $400. I mean literally I spend that on gas lol. Good luck to you out in Romania, do you guys have the lottery out there?

There is one lol :-)

Luckily I don't depend on this Country at all :-)

My main sales are from US, lol