Save the family - end marriage

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  • Jimbob_Rebel
    Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 169

    Save the family - end marriage

    O.k., I'm pro-marriage as a religious institution. To me it's a sacrament. I don't necessarily agree with the author that the state needs to be removed from the equation entirely but he does make a compelling argument and his logic really can't be faulted;

    SAVE THE FAMILY - END MARRIAGE
    by MotivationMan


    There is a lot of talk these days about preserving traditional family values. It is pretty clear that the traditional nuclear family is under siege. Divorce, out of wedlock births, unmarried cohabitation, homosexuality, and abortion are all on the rise and will continue to skyrocket. Many people want to go back to the old ways. But that is a bunch of reactionary nonsense. The fact of the matter is that when these type of changes occur in a society they never change back. This is why conservatism wont work here...there is nothing to conserve. For numerous economic and cultural reasons the traditional nuclear family is rapidly disappearing and there is nothing we can do about that unless we want to start stoning people like they do in muslim countries...which we all know will never happen. Real solutions look forward. We have to soberly look at the systematic social trends and provide a new solution.

    The main problem is the fact that we have a mixed system. The relics of nuclear family culture are still entrenched in our legal code while at the same time the people have begun to culturally move away from the institution of marriage. Our marriage laws were written at a time when women were socially weaker and the majority opinion was that they needed special legal protection to compensate. This is born out in modern divorce proceedings as any man who has ever been to family court can tell you. Women are now at economic and social parity (if not better) with men due to affirmative action and the end of industrialism in the west. So the laws that protected them are now obsolete. In fact worse than that they incentivize bad behavior. Family law gives women extreme leverage against men and it is not surprising that they ruthlessly exploit that power. So for those men who do get married it has become a form of legal serfdom to a woman because the threat of rape in divorce court and the prospect of child support and alimony for the foreseeable future. Laws that were made to keep men responsible have turned into a license for women to be irresponsible.

    It is clear that the institution of marriage has outlived its usefulness. But what to replace it with? There are two principles that guide my thought here:

    1. Freedom of choice comes with the responsibility to deal with the consequences of your choice
    2. You get what you incentivize

    The first thing we do is end all legal recognition of marriage. If two people (or more) of whatever sex want to have a private ceremony and say they are married that is their prerogative. But the government has nothing to do with it. This means no sharing of property and debt. I would even go so far as to ban joint bank accounts. And since there is no marriage there is no divorce...who owns what is clear from the start and there is no need for a court to divide it up.

    But what about the children? Ah yes...the children. It is not really possible anymore to have a rational policy discussion without ruining it by bringing up the ultimate emotive battle cry of "the children". This is where principle 1 comes into play. It is firmly established in our common law that it is the woman and the woman alone that makes the decision of whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term. Well and good I say...but the woman alone must deal with the consequences of their choice. If a woman chooses to carry a pregnancy to term then it is her responsibility to take care of the child. Almost needless to say this policy would have to be coupled with the complete and one hundred percent removal of all surrogate parenting functions of the government. The single mother must be utterly alone because the decision to have a kid was hers alone. I'd even go so far as to not even having the father's name on the birth certificate.

    What if she can't afford the kid? Well if it were up to me the bastard would be sold into slavery or left to die of exposure...but mercifully for all you mongoloids and other defectives I do not call the shots yet. If a woman has a child she can't afford to support then the state should seize it and put it up for adoption...if nobody will adopt I am sure there are workhouses. This creates a massive disincentive for dysfunctional unattached women to shit out a womb goblin...which is a highly positive social force.

    As I have said it must be the woman alone who is legally compelled to support her children...emphasis on the word compelled. A man should have the choice to financially support a woman and her children in what might be called a family arrangement. But this must be one hundred percent voluntary. In this way we create another positive social force. Rather than have an incentive to break up a family and ruin the man the woman now has an incentive to keep the family together and please the man. She must please him...or lose his material support which he can withdraw at any time. This is the essence of principle 2. Our present incentives lead to instability...we must incentivize stability...and anybody who knows anything about women can tell you that giving them all the leverage in a relationship is antithetical to stability.

    Our new no marriage system would firstly prevent women who can't afford a child on their own or get a man to voluntarily support them from reproducing. This will solve most of our problems. Secondly it will favor stable families among those who are fit to reproduce by giving men leverage in family arrangements through the freedom to withdraw at any time at no cost. This will curb female excesses and provide an ideal balance of power for the raising of mentally healthy children. The end of marriage need not be the end of the family. Indeed if we end it right it will lead to a much more functional and stable society for the children of the future.


    http://www.arthurshall.com/x_2011_marriage.shtml
  • WickedKitchen
    Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 2528

    #2
    Well, my wife doesn't read this forum but somehow I'm apprehensive about posting on this one.

    I think that the importance of having 2 parents is greater than having both a man and a woman parent. Sure, the legal aspect of money wreaks havoc but I'm inclined to believe that it's got more to do with the lawyers and the system itself than it does the people involved. I've just seen some friends go through some nasty stuff and it was clear that the system was the culprit. I view marriage as a my wife's thing really. When my girlfriend (now wife) moved into my apartment at that point I was married, in my mind. I have a sister-in-law who lives with a guy, has a child with him, and everything is fine. I respect that totally. In fact, I see no need for marriage for them. I don't know what the laws are like in the UK where they live, but they can't be that dissimilar to the US. Now if they were to ever split they wouldn't be branded by a failed marriage. The effects for the child and the social effect on the parents won't change but they won't be labeled as "divorced" when in all actuality they will be.

    I don't think that it should be the woman's sole responsibility to raise and fund a child though. In a utopia maybe but I don't have enough faith in society for this to truly work. Y'know...the "it takes a village" sort of mentality works in theory but certainly not in modern America. I'm not saying that being a single parent or being the child of a single parent necessarily makes you less of a person either but it could and if everyone was in this boat society would be very different than it is now.

    I don't know. I'm certainly not smart enough to have the answer to this one but I do believe that "marriage" is antiquated. That being said I have a fantastic relationship. If we had never gotten married I would still be here today in the same capacity as I am now. I'm interested in reading what others think here.

    Comment

    • Monkey
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2009
      • 3290

      #3
      One of the driving forces in me getting married was to have legal ties to my kids, sadly, because I do not trust their mother's judgement all of the time. Now as we are separated and awaiting a divorce I am glad I did... I would have the kids the majority of the time anyway but she can not up and run with them if she went batshit crazy and some dude tried to move her across the country (which she tried to pull when she left us...and wanted to take the kids who she hadn't seen in a month)

      As an institution and a sacrament......pffft. As part of the legal system I am all for it. But that is just me. If there were no kids involved I am all for no marriage. My opinion only....

      Comment

      • muddyfunkstar
        Member
        • Aug 2010
        • 967

        #4
        Wow, that guy really hates women. Maybe he should move to middle-east where they're already treated as second-class citizens. He'd love it.

        Comment

        • Ainkor
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 1144

          #5
          While from a purely logical standpoint his argument makes sense, we are highly illogical beings.

          Comment

          • lxskllr
            Member
            • Sep 2007
            • 13435

            #6
            Originally posted by Ainkor View Post
            While from a purely logical standpoint his argument makes sense, we are highly illogical beings.
            That's why logic should be rigorously enforced. I'm 100% for his proposal.

            Comment

            • Mykislt
              Member
              • Sep 2010
              • 677

              #7
              I'd read the article before, and I agree, but it is completely a pipe dream, neva gona hapen.

              http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/...ry-bubble.html

              heres another article of the same nature. It is more intense, it has a billion times more references.

              Wow, that guy really hates women. Maybe he should move to middle-east where they're already treated as second-class citizens. He'd love it.
              what makes you think that? The way I see it He is disappointed with so much divorce going on, and he produced a radical solution. With contraception and abortion widely available in the west, it is usually almost entirely a choice to have a child, so if a woman choses to have a child, and divorce her husband, it shouldn't be "pay up", it should be "tough titties"

              Comment

              • chadizzy1
                Member
                • May 2009
                • 7432

                #8
                Originally posted by Monkey View Post
                One of the driving forces in me getting married was to have legal ties to my kids, sadly, because I do not trust their mother's judgement all of the time. Now as we are separated and awaiting a divorce I am glad I did... I would have the kids the majority of the time anyway but she can not up and run with them if she went batshit crazy and some dude tried to move her across the country (which she tried to pull when she left us...and wanted to take the kids who she hadn't seen in a month)

                As an institution and a sacrament......pffft. As part of the legal system I am all for it. But that is just me. If there were no kids involved I am all for no marriage. My opinion only....
                I'm a single parent myself. I try to stay out of a lot of the "marriage" issues as long as they don't affect me.

                However, when Arkansas passed Act 1 that said single parents couldn't adopt I was ****ing pissed. I want another child, and they said no. Now, I don't think anyone has the right to say a "married couple" is a better parental force than myself as a single father. I'm a great dad, and I know men/women couples who don't do 1% of the stuff I do.

                Act 1 was later repealed, which I was happy about.

                Comment

                • truthwolf1
                  Member
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 2696

                  #9
                  How true! (When my girlfriend (now wife) moved into my apartment at that point I was married, in my mind.)

                  I settled down with a "foreign wife" who is not a slave by the way. Sometimes one can wish, lol.
                  If I would of taken the road of a fully westernized bossy career type woman, I have no doubt I would be a statistic by now.

                  Comment

                  • chadizzy1
                    Member
                    • May 2009
                    • 7432

                    #10
                    Originally posted by truthwolf1 View Post
                    I settled down with a "foreign wife" who is not a slave by the way. Sometimes one can wish, lol.
                    If I would of taken the road of a fully westernized bossy career type woman, I have no doubt I would be a statistic by now.
                    I've heard good things about this. I have a friend who swears by Filipino women. But I'd worry about the communication barrier/lack of common interests. But then again, women I've had common interests with in the past have always done me wrong.

                    Comment

                    • truthwolf1
                      Member
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 2696

                      #11
                      Originally posted by chadizzy1 View Post
                      I've heard good things about this. I have a friend who swears by Filipino women. But I'd worry about the communication barrier/lack of common interests. But then again, women I've had common interests with in the past have always done me wrong.
                      There are a lot of great American women out there but they are snatched up very quickly as I learned in the dating game. My wife is actually from the same country/culture as I grew up in so we have more in common then if I would of married a fellow Minnesotan gal. We met through a friend introduction.

                      I have also heard many great things about Filipino women and that they are very traditional.

                      Maybe a nice Swedish Girl would work for you?

                      Comment

                      • chadizzy1
                        Member
                        • May 2009
                        • 7432

                        #12
                        Originally posted by truthwolf1 View Post
                        Maybe a nice Swedish Girl would work for you?
                        I met quite a few when I was over there. They were all so laid back and kind. Very unlike women here locally.

                        Comment

                        • sgreger1
                          Member
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 9451

                          #13
                          This creates a massive disincentive for dysfunctional unattached women to shit out a womb goblin...which is a highly positive social force.

                          LOLOLOLOOO. This article rocks!

                          Comment

                          • CoderGuy
                            Member
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 2679

                            #14
                            Since I am anti-religion, I am also anti-marriage (since marriage is a religious institution). That being said however, I do believe there needs to be some kind of formal contract or commitment between partners in order to receive benefits (tax breaks, medical, etc.) Now THAT being said, I don't think anyone like Chad should be denied the opportunity to parent another child just because he is not married, that's just BS! With all the POS people out there that are "legally" able to be parents and abuse the right, by neglecting their children or abusing them or worse, the marriage BS should not be the deciding factor in parenthood.

                            Comment

                            • sgreger1
                              Member
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 9451

                              #15
                              Originally posted by chadizzy1 View Post
                              I've heard good things about this. I have a friend who swears by Filipino women. But I'd worry about the communication barrier/lack of common interests. But then again, women I've had common interests with in the past have always done me wrong.
                              Naw man, they all speak english. I highly recommend it! lol

                              (On the reals though, bankrolling an asian woman's rice consumpion will bankrupt you.)

                              Comment

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