Does anyone here know PYTHON (the programming language) or any others?

[sgreger1]

Yeah, but when you remove this from the "academic study" scenario - writing your own crypto is basically never an appropriate solution.

This is my main concern, while right now I am just dicking around in my free time, eventually I would like to do something with it. What I don't want is to learn it the wrong way and then be used to writing sub-par code that no one else will understand since they learned differently. I am glad I got this kids book, because it takes the time to tell you what is the "standard" way of doing things, and gives a brief explanation of why people do it that way. Things like starting strings with 0 instead of 1, name them i,j,k etc and the reasoning behind that, or knowing that the common amount of indentation is 4 spaces even though you could do it however you wanted. I want to make sure I am learning to not only write functional code, but also code that is written in the "traditional" way so that others can easily see what I did. I don't want to be the guy who invented his own way of doing things because then I am the only one doing it that way and it will make it harder to learn from other's code, which is the whole point of choosing python as my first language (lots of open source shit written by other people to learn from).

[devilock76]

Yeah, but when you remove this from the "academic study" scenario - writing your own crypto is basically never an appropriate solution.

Agreed, 100%.

Ken

[devilock76]

Cool! I am still not familiar with what tools come pre-installed to be honest, I am sure a lot of things could be simplified once I learned about more of the functions available to me. My little project is of course not in any way secure at all, especially since it's written in simple python which could be back engineered as quickly as I can read english, but it is just more of an exercise in learning how to do input/output. I am learning how to use GUI's to prompt the user for the info and then using ranges of numbers to create the massive amounts of characters I need in the text file, now I just need to know how to get it to take my message and print it out at various intervals throughout the text file (like 1 letter prints every 50 characters for example).

ANyways, how does one know that tools suck as grep, awk, sed exist and how does one learn to use them? I see brief explanations of functions but no explanation of what they really do or how to make them do it. Is there any kind of reference manual that just shows all the different tools available to you and what they do plus a few examples of what using them may look like? I know Orielly makes reference books but have yet to look at any. Python is really cool because these little modules save a shit load of time I would imagine it's like once you know what is available all you have to do is become skillful in piecing it together the right way.

Just to mention those are more OS level tools than say Python. They are particular to *nix systems of which OS X is and will have implementations of. At the command line man grep or man awk or man sed will get you started. However awk and sed there is a pile of documentation far beyond the man pages. They are almost languages in their own right.

You learn about them because you spend time learning Unix and being a system administrator or scripting. This is what we do when there is no GUI. We work with things like that, or VI (or emacs). We check our email though pine (or Alpine) download with wget, maybe even run bittorrent-console or -curses.

Ken

[sgreger1]

Hey guys, I have been doing pretty good reading tutorials and ebooks and stuff, but I want to take it to the next level because I feel like I need a little more instruction than is provided in these online mediums.

I was looking at enrolling in Orielly's online school of technology, they're the ones who make all the reference books that seem to be pretty decent and they charge $400 per course, 4 different courses to get the full certification but each individual class is 4 ceu's. Does anyone have any experience with this company or this type of training, i.e. online courses of this nature? For those more experienced, do you think the level 1 python course is something that a beginner programmer could walk into and be able to understand? I read the syllabus and it seems like a lot of the stuff i've been reading in these tutorials so I think I should be able to get the hang of it.


Here's the links and the syllabus, if anyone has any experience with them please let me know how it went and if it was worth it. I care about learning python but not about the certification part, it is purely for the learning experience and not part of any attempt at higher education. Plus the $400 they want is cheaper than the community college and I won't have to wait until next semester to start. But I have never taken an online course before so don't know what to expect, any advice is welcome.

Thanks!




Course Details and Syllabus:

Course: Python 1: Beginning Python

Tuition: $398

Time Frame: Due to our monthly lab fee system, this course is completely self-paced. You can expect to work approximately 40 hours on this course.

Technical Requirements: As long as you have a web browser and internet connection, you can take this course from anywhere in the world.

CEUs: 4 Continuing Education Units with official letter from the University of Illinois Office of Continuing Education.

Software: The Ellipse Learning Sandbox® provided for you will contain all your lessons, projects, quizzes, account files, editors, and compiling tools necessary to build your skills from beginning to end, even beyond coursework. No other software is needed.

Instructor: You will have one instructor throughout the course who will evaluate your projects and quizzes, hand them back for improvement when necessary, and coach you throughout your skills advancement.

Book: All required course materials and software are included online within the Learning Sandbox®. However, within a few weeks of enrolling, you'll receive the free ebook Python Pocket Reference, Fourth Edition as a complimentary reference from O'Reilly.

Certificates: Completion of this course counts toward the Python Programming Certificate Series.

Prerequisites: None.

Topics: Data Types, Namespaces, Conditional Statements, Sequence Containers, Sets, Dicts, String Formatting, Loops, Reading and Writing Files, Functions, The Python Standard Library, Classes, Objects, Methods, etc.

Syllabus:
Python 1 Lab 1 -- Getting Started
Python History
Lesson Format
Writing Your First Program
Data In Python

Python 1 Lab 2 -- Entering and Storing Data
Binding Values to Names
More Python Syntax Basics
Reading and Converting User Input
Calculating with Stored Values

Python 1 Lab 3 -- Making Decisions: The if Statement
Conditions in Python
Making Decisions: Simple if Statements
Choosing Between Alternatives: the else Clause
Multiple Choice Decisions
Combining Conditions: 'and' and 'or'
Testing For a Range of Values: Chaining Comparisons

Python 1 Lab 4 -- Iteration: For and While Loops
A Simple For Loop
Breaking Out of a Loop
While Loops
Terminating the Current Iteration

Python 1 Lab 5 -- Sequence Containers: Lists and Tuples
Writing Lists and Tuples
Accessing Sequence Values
Modifying Lists
Slices With a Stride: Skipping Around Sequences
Some Other Functions and Methods to Work with Sequences
Testing for Presence in a Sequence
Manipulating Lists and Tuples

Python 1 Lab 6 -- Sets and Dicts
Creating Sets
Working With Sets
Working with Dicts
Applying Dicts: Counting Words
A More Complex Application: Word Pair Frequencies

Python 1 Lab 7 -- String Formatting
The format() Method
Function Arguments
Format Field Names
Format Specifications

Python 1 Lab 8 -- More About Looping
Fun with the range() function
Using the enumerate function
While Loops and User Input Validation.
Dicts and loops

Python 1 Lab 9 -- Reading and Writing Files
Creating a New File
Writing to a File
Reading Files as Text
Appending to a File
Seeking to Arbitrary Positions

Python 1 Lab 10 -- Python's Built-In Functions
abs(x)
all(iterable)
any(iterable)
bool(x)
chr(i)
...and more!!

Python 1 Lab 11 -- Defining and Calling Your Own Functions
Parameters and arguments
Returning values
Multiple return values
Functions and Namespaces

Python 1 Lab 12 -- The Python Standard Library
Namespaces
Python Modules
Importing Modules
The System Path

Python 1 Lab 13 -- More about functions
Arbitrary Keyword Parameters
Parameters, Sequence-parameters and Dict-parameters
Importing Functions and help()

Python 1 Lab 14 -- Classes and Object-Oriented Programming
The Nature of Objects
Defining Your Own Object Classes
Class and Instance Namespaces
Defining Object Behavior
Defining Behavior as Methods
Python Deep Magic: Hooking Into Python's Class Mechanism

Python 1 Lab 15 -- Exception Handling
How to Catch an Exception
Verifying Numeric Input
Handling Multiple Exception Types
Handling Multiple Exceptions with One Handler
Raising Exceptions
Specific and Generic exceptions
When and When Not to Use Exceptions

Python 1 Lab 16 -- Building and Debugging Whole Programs
The Art of Computer Programming
Program Complexity
Agile Programming
Documenting and Testing Python Code

[GoVegan]

Actually Orielly's online school of technology is pretty good and you get a free pocket protector upon request!


http://cgi.ebay.com/7-VINTAGE-POCKET...#ht_500wt_1156

http://www.pojman.com/PP/pocket_prot...rotectors.html

[ratcheer]

I am pretty familiar with O'Reilly and, in my opinion, they are top notch at what they do.

Tim

[devilock76]

Never been to an O'reilly class, but have several of their books, well written, and they offer lots of online resources free.

Personally though, if you have never programmed then it would be good to take a class to learn programming concepts. especially OO concepts, and at this if you are paying for a class I would lean towards Java. If you can do well in the Java class it will make python just as easy. Once you learn to program learning most languages is simply a matter of syntax and vocabulary that can easily be obtained through RTFM. What it takes to become competent in most languages in the real world is however a matter of practice. Quite simply take on a project and code it. Be ambitious and in the process of coding and learning and testing you will greatly improve your ability to code in the language you choose.

Ken

[sgreger1]

Never been to an O'reilly class, but have several of their books, well written, and they offer lots of online resources free.

Personally though, if you have never programmed then it would be good to take a class to learn programming concepts. especially OO concepts, and at this if you are paying for a class I would lean towards Java. If you can do well in the Java class it will make python just as easy. Once you learn to program learning most languages is simply a matter of syntax and vocabulary that can easily be obtained through RTFM. What it takes to become competent in most languages in the real world is however a matter of practice. Quite simply take on a project and code it. Be ambitious and in the process of coding and learning and testing you will greatly improve your ability to code in the language you choose.

Ken

Thanks for the advice man! I would love to take a course to learn programming concepts but I don't know where I would take that or what the class would be called. This is the problem is I don't even know where to start with programming so I just chose Python and have been trying to learn that.

May I ask why you recommend Java? I kinda just chose python cause it felt right, but I still have no idea what languages are the main ones being used in the programming world. I don't know what the strengths and weaknesses of any of the languages are. Python seems like it has the easiest syntax to read so I went with that, but should I be learning something else instead, is Java going to be easier to learn or in some way benefit me? And is Java compiled or interpreted?

[devilock76]

Thanks for the advice man! I would love to take a course to learn programming concepts but I don't know where I would take that or what the class would be called. This is the problem is I don't even know where to start with programming so I just chose Python and have been trying to learn that.

May I ask why you recommend Java? I kinda just chose python cause it felt right, but I still have no idea what languages are the main ones being used in the programming world. I don't know what the strengths and weaknesses of any of the languages are. Python seems like it has the easiest syntax to read so I went with that, but should I be learning something else instead, is Java going to be easier to learn or in some way benefit me? And is Java compiled or interpreted?

Java is a harder language to learn and forces strict OO adherence. As such it is worthwhile to take a class in it for your learning and resume building. A good java teacher will give you many of the general programming concepts I am referring to here.

Ken

[internope]

Thanks for the advice man! I would love to take a course to learn programming concepts but I don't know where I would take that or what the class would be called. This is the problem is I don't even know where to start with programming so I just chose Python and have been trying to learn that.

Check the local community college. If they have an IT program there should be some first semester classes that would give you a foundation to build upon.

[devilock76]

Check the local community college. If they have an IT program there should be some first semester classes that would give you a foundation to build upon.

Let me +1 that as often industry style training courses typically assume you are already in IT, and design the syllabus with that in mind. Community college courses may give a better handling of programming fundamentals.

Ken

[sgreger1]

Okay so I checked my local community college, I can apply if I get it in my May 23 so if you guys could help me real quick it would mean the world to me.


I need to know what course to take, none of it makes any sense and I don't know which courses are relevant to me.

I know nothing about unix/linux etc. I wanted to learn Python first but apparently it would be smarter to get acquainted with the basic workings of things, lke for example I don't know how to use a shell or any of that.

Can someone please take a look at this page and tell me where a beginner should start? I want to become an IT professional someday, but more short term I want to learn to program.

Here is the courses offered at my local community college:

Computing Studies

• Computer Information Systems
• Computer Information Systems - Computer Applications Software
• Computer Network Technology - Internetworking Technology & Cisco
• Computer Network Technology - Computer Network Technician
• Computer Network Technology - Computer Network Administration (Microsoft)
• Computer Network Technology - Cisco Network Associate
• Computer Network Technology - Cisco Network Professional
• Computer Science
• Computer Science - Computer Programming
• Computer Science - Computer Programming for the Web
• Electronics Technology

For someone who understands computers well but that needs to learn the basic of programming/IT, which of these courses would you choose as a starting point? I have no idea how to get into the IT field but I want to start by taking at least one class. For those already in the business, could you please let me know which of the above courses would be a good starting point for me? I really appreciate it.


Alternatively, I was looking at Orielly's online school which sounds great in my mind and they claim is for absolute beginners, which of these two courses should I start with:

Should I follow this course list:



For the complete I.T. beginner:

• Linux/Unix Sysadmin I: The Basics of System Administration
• Introduction to HTML and CSS
• Introduction to Object-Oriented Programming
• Introduction to C Programming

Or shoul I go straight to the python beginners course:

Python 1: Beginning Python

398.00

Course Details and Syllabus


These courses are expensive so I can only afford to do one at a time.


So should I go to the local community college and take one of the above listed courses (if so, which one), or should I do the online training programs through Orielly? The advantage of the online course sis that they give youa virtual work environment where I can use their "online "computer lab", and the onyl reason I think this is an advantage is because I only have a single Mac Osx10 laptop to work with at the moment, and the online lab allows me to use a windows emulator that is cloud based essentially.


Can someone help me decide which one of these to take for a beginner who wants to get into the IT field?

Thank you so much for your help to anyone who is willing to provide assistance.


EDIT: The local community college offers this as part of a degree program, but it seems like the whole first part woul be useless to me since I am already very skilled with the MS office suite, but take a look at their progam and tell me if it sounds good:



So to finish their degree program means me spending lots of money on physical education and humanities classes and crap which I want to avoid. I am not sure if a degree is that valuable in the IT field or if me just leanring all of the elements on my own and buildinga portfolio is a better use of my time/resources.

Would those of you in the IT field suggest taking the whole degree program from my local college or should I just focus on the elements which I want to learn (i.e. taking online courses through orielly for the specific types fo things I want to learn?) I just don't know if it will be worth the money to take all of these GE classes etc if the degree won't eb worth anything. If I took the whole degree program listed above, would this benefit me in the IT industry or be a waste of time?

Thanks guys!

[lxskllr]

Here's a couple Python Guides from Full Circle magazine. They may be of some use to you...

http://ubuntuone.com/p/tKk/

Here's some books on Linux you might find useful. I can't remember what I put in there, but I think there's at least 1 scripting guide...

http://ubuntuone.com/p/hN6/

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

I vote for the O'Reily on-line classes in the order listed. I never took any of those, but the other classes you listed sound pretty lame and windows-centric which is not that cool to most geeks IMO. Learn the free stuff, it's free and more powerful YMMV.

[russki]

I want to become an IT professional someday, but more short term I want to learn to program.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread too much, so bear with me. I am going to school for CS so I thought I'd chime in.

If you want to do IT at any professional level, generally you will need a degree of some type from a school, as opposed to simply gaining certifications and such through tests or training programs. While IT and programming go hand in hand, they are basically two different fields of study with multiple sub-disciplines. Depending on what you want to specialize in, you can take different routes for each. Again, if you want to program at any professional level, you will need a degree.

The flip side to all of this is that you can easily learn and master both programming and IT work on your own. From this, the possibilities are endless with respect to freelance work if that is what you are interested in.

If you are looking to program, and you've got the 'just' of how computers work, I would simply stick to beginner programming books and go from there. The course certifications won't land you jobs on their own and are simply just costing you for something you could learn on your own.