OSX Falls First - PwnToOwn

[CoderGuy]

That is like saying that because your car doesn't move it is ok that your bumper is made of play-dough? Is that how you ration paying twice what most of the market pays for computing?

Ken

All the Apple haters in the world could not convince me it wasn't the best. I love my Apple products and I love Apple.

[internope]

If the contest had been held a few weeks earlier all four browsers would have fallen. They have all had major vulnerabilities exposed recently.

Go to any network security conference and take a look around the room and count the Apple notebooks. Security professionals and network engineers generally prefer OS X to Windows.

[CoderGuy]

If the contest had been held a few weeks earlier all four browsers would have fallen. They have all had major vulnerabilities exposed recently.

Go to any network security conference and take a look around the room and count the Apple notebooks. Security professionals and network engineers generally prefer OS X to Windows.

That is true. All of our IT guys have MacBook Pros. Also most musicians and graphics related people prefer OS X and MacBook Pros

[gentlemanly]

I know, that's what i'm saying, I don't care why they don't target them but the end restul is that they don't, resulting in a better experience for me. It doesn't matter if windows is more "Secure" if it's always being targeted. If Mac started getting targeted I would just switch to linux or something, the point is that functionally Mac is a better product because no one tries bothering it which makes the end user experience much better.

I completely agree, in my years of using a PC, I had to constantly sweep for viruses, update, reboot, defrag, clean HD, and got 2 viruses that crashed my system and fried my drives.....in the 3 years I have owned my mac, I have had zero problems, nada, zilch. In my eyes, I did not pay twice as much for the same thing, I paid twice as much to not have to deal with all that other crap, and after losing papers and research time and time again, for a student, this is everything.

[CoderGuy]

I completely agree, in my years of using a PC, I had to constantly sweep for viruses, update, reboot, defrag, clean HD, and got 2 viruses that crashed my system and fried my drives.....in the 3 years I have owned my mac, I have had zero problems, nada, zilch. In my eyes, I did not pay twice as much for the same thing, I paid twice as much to not have to deal with all that other crap, and after losing papers and research time and time again, for a student, this is everything.

And don't forget driver issues. Constantly finding drivers and codecs on Windows machines and it's even worse with Linux. On Linux you have not only find the driver, but you have to build it too, and make sure all your dependent libraries are the proper version, and if not, you have to apt_get them and build them too. I can't even count the number of hours I have spent trying to get Samba and printers working right on my network on Linux machines.

[Roo]

These arguments are ridiculous, but for what it's worth, I'm 32 and have used Macs since day 1 when when my dad brought home this



and not even once have I ever experienced or worried about viruses or hackers or any security breach whatsoever. We just don't even think about it, for good reason. As for spending money, I just purchased a new 13" Macbook Pro last weekend for $1200. Based on past experience it will be at least 5 years until I feel like I need a new one (admittedly I don't update frequently because I don't need to for recreational use). Is 66 cents per day for hardware really so bad?

[Bigblue1]

Yep apple is superior! And For all you Appl haters out there you must at least realize every time you GUI gets better it's because of Apple R&D. Microsoft just has to reverse engineer everything for the next version of Windows. Admit it you need Apple.

[lxskllr]

I hate the Apple GUI. MS really isn't that close to Apple anyway. Now Ubuntu OTOH... They're turning into a bunch of Apple wannabes, and their mimicry is pushing me closer to Debian with every release :^/

[Bigblue1]

I hate the Apple GUI. MS really isn't that close to Apple anyway. Now Ubuntu OTOH... They're turning into a bunch of Apple wannabes, and their mimicry is pushing me closer to Debian with every release :^/

I'm not really saying "how" you drive it factor but the behind the scenes functionality and Features that are inevitably incorporated into windows after they are successful on the mac. And once again lx about of the 95% of Windows users you are in a basically mac like niche of 5% who like to get into the guts of the machine and really compute as a hobby rather than as most people who would much rather have it be like their telephone just pick it up and it's good to go.......

[devilock76]

That is like saying that because your car doesn't move it is ok that your bumper is made of play-dough? Is that how you ration paying twice what most of the market pays for computing?

Ken

Don't get me wrong, I like apple. Been thinking of buying one for my next computer, just to finally remove windows from the mixed environment. Most everything is linux but a mac would kill the last vestiges of Windows here. I have an iPhone, so I can't be a complete Apple hater. However I notice these things about Apple/Mac and their users.

1. Overpriced - although there is a good deal of value added especially for non tech users or persons working with advanced AV needs.
2. Misleading Marketing - such as the topic of security that has come up here in this thread and the original link.
3. The fan boy thing - granted every group has one, the mac users just seem to be a special breed to me. I am sure that is a matter of perspective though.

Ken

[devilock76]

And don't forget driver issues. Constantly finding drivers and codecs on Windows machines and it's even worse with Linux. On Linux you have not only find the driver, but you have to build it too, and make sure all your dependent libraries are the proper version, and if not, you have to apt_get them and build them too. I can't even count the number of hours I have spent trying to get Samba and printers working right on my network on Linux machines.

Sounds like you are talking about Linux of many years ago. Or the few source based distros left that are for the geekiest of the geeks.

Ken

[devilock76]

I'm not really saying "how" you drive it factor but the behind the scenes functionality and Features that are inevitably incorporated into windows after they are successful on the mac. And once again lx about of the 95% of Windows users you are in a basically mac like niche of 5% who like to get into the guts of the machine and really compute as a hobby rather than as most people who would much rather have it be like their telephone just pick it up and it's good to go.......

And mac built off of the open source community, your Linux and BSD examples.

I like how well high end multimedia works on Mac. I also like the physical quality of the product. I just don't think people should be mislead into thinking it is superior without real justification. I have had 0 virii problems on my linux boxes, but there are linux viruses. I have had few driver problems on my linux boxes, and I could fix all the ones I did encounter and it is not like the old days of having to recompile the kernel to fix some things. I have had very few windows viruses.

The bottom line is the differences are slim. The hype is overboard. And the reality is that what works best for that person is what works best for that person, and best practices when it comes to security are a universal concept, not a per OS concept.

Ken

[Bigblue1]

3. The fan boy thing - granted every group has one, the mac users just seem to be a special breed to me. I am sure that is a matter of perspective though.

Ken

I don't know, I would never let this be a deciding factor for me. I ice fish a lot and on the ice fishing forums we all argue the benefits and deficiencies of our electronics on there. I happen to own the brand of those that gets labeled fanboy all the time as well. But if you compare the units they are far superior and sell less than the big guy. I guess that just creates a certain amount of loyalty and you want to help others, especially the newbs, that there is not only another option but a better option. The only difference between ice flashers and computers is that the little better guy actually costs less than the bigger guy so we never have to justify the "cost" factor.

[lxskllr]

It's all in fun for me. I have complaints regarding Apple, but in the end I don't really care. devilock's comment about the fanboyishness is also an issue. There's a certain smugness with a lot of users that bothers me, especially regarding security. That's why I take particular pleasure in hacks like this. A lot Mac users are complacent, and if Apple gets much more popular, it's gonna bite them in the ass. Apple's already recommending A/V, and a couple more percentage points in popularity will put them in the crosshairs. The iPhone's a more pressing issue due to it's popularity. Apple, and their users are gonna have to be more vigilant in the future.

[CoderGuy]

It's all in fun for me. I have complaints regarding Apple, but in the end I don't really care. devilock's comment about the fanboyishness is also an issue. There's a certain smugness with a lot of users that bothers me, especially regarding security. That's why I take particular pleasure in hacks like this. A lot Mac users are complacent, and if Apple gets much more popular, it's gonna bite them in the ass. Apple's already recommending A/V, and a couple more percentage points in popularity will put them in the crosshairs. The iPhone's a more pressing issue due to it's popularity. Apple, and their users are gonna have to be more vigilant in the future.

You speak truth. I am a fanboy, I think the reason it's easier is we have a "Brand" to rally around. Linux and Windows machines generally don't. Sure, there are ASUS groups out there and the NVIDIA crowd, but you don't see people going to Dell or HP conventions. Apple is a brand and are masters of marketing. They make their fans feel special (we pay the high price because they love us so much (being facetious of course)). But to be fair, I know a LOT more Windows and Linux users that do not protect themselves than Apple users.