Help Japan!

[Hanske]

I disagree. I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you. You have your opinion, I have mine. We can agree to disagree.

Then we disagree. My opinion is that innocent people shouldn't be murdered by a nations millitary force, which means I'm a member of a sect. You believe you have the right to kill innocent people, because someone with the same RELIGION decided to crash two planes in WTC.

Again, I ask a question. Who is the one bringing religion into this?

[frazz]

Then we disagree. My opinion is that innocent people shouldn't be murdered by a nations millitary force, which means I'm a member of a sect. You believe you have the right to kill innocent people, because someone with the same RELIGION decided to crash two planes in WTC.

Again, I ask a question. Who is the one bringing religion into this?

Hey, Hansolo. Proud Infidel (if that is what you meant by bringing religion into this) means Proud American. I don't think I mention religion in any other post. I am gonna use a reference to a classic movie to respond to your concern for the innocent people being killed. They drew first blood....lol

Brother you seem easily upset.

[Hanske]

Hey, Hansolo. Proud Infidel (if that is what you meant by bringing religion into this) means Proud American. I don't think I mention religion in any other post. I am gonna use a reference to a classic movie to respond to your concern for the innocent people being killed. They drew first blood....lol

Brother you seem easily upset.

Not, not normally. But when I meet a guy that supports killing innocent people, yes I get upset.

Well, you brought religion into the discussion. First you asked me, ironicly, if I was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Then I put the whole war on terror on the edge, and says that its basis is Islam.

[frazz]

Not, not normally. But when I meet a guy that supports killing innocent people, yes I get upset.

Well, you brought religion into the discussion. First you asked me, ironicly, if I was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Then I put the whole war on terror on the edge, and says that its basis is Islam.

Yes, I was just saying your views are similar.

btw. So the war on terror is bogus because innocent civilians die, but the people in the WTC that were killed is ok with you.

another BTW... I loved the book, "I was a teenage norweigen"

[snusjus]

I am running a charity to help Japan. Please wire all money to my Western Union account located Ghana, Africa.

[Premium Parrots]

I think the real question here has no good answer



Who would you rather have sex with.... a live Queen Lativa or a dead Hale Berry. but only dead for a few hours.

[Hanske]

I am running a charity to help Japan. Please wire all money to my Western Union account located Ghana, Africa.

I'm on my way.

[frazz]

I think the real question here has no good answer



Who would you rather have sex with.... a live Queen Lativa or a dead Hale Berry. but only dead for a few hours.

Well, I like big butts and I can not lie.

[frazz]

I am running a charity to help Japan. Please wire all money to my Western Union account located Ghana, Africa.

Can I get a routing number please?

[sgreger1]

Then explain this to me. I'll make up a story.

Jeremy lived a happy life with a wife and two children, in a lower middle class area in Michigan. One day his doctor tells him he has a tumor on his brain. As he can't work anymore, his employer sacks him, and he loses his health insurance that his employer payed for him. As you have to pay for hospital treatment in the US, he sells his car and house, and buys a small flat in a bad area. This will get him enough money to get treatment for 8-12 months.

After his money's spent, he's not cured, and he has to sell his new flat. He ends up in the street. His children and wife disapear, so he's all alone. Eventually he dies.

---------------------------------

And then the Norwegian version.

Morten lived a happy life with a wife and two children, in a middle class area in Akershus. One day his doctor tells him he has a tumor on his brain. As he can't work anymore, the government gives him "sykepenger", which equals about 80% of what he earned before. He can still live in his house, and if neccesary, the government will pay for his wife's salary as well, so she can stay at home to treat him. The hospital is free, as Norwegian taxes actually are spent on something, so he gets all the treatment he needs, at Radiumhospitalet in Oslo. If he dies, his life couldn't be saved anyway.

Wow, I was completely unaware that the world was so black and white! Let me explain a little better how it works here:

Disclaimer: I would like to premise this by saying that I like Norways system better, a) because I am norweigean and b) because it just works better for all of the reasons you explained. I am not opposed to a socialist health care system.


Morten lived a happy suburban life with a wife and two children, in a middle class area in san francisco. One day his doctor diagnosis him with a potentially fatal brain tumor. He then goes on medical disability leave for several months where he does not have to work (at reduced pay but still a decent amount), in fact, no brian tumor is necessary to be on disability, if he feels too "stressed" for any reason at work he can take 6 months off just like any american worker can. Anyways, so he first takes a few months off on disability, where he is paid a reduced wage but is allowed to recover at home for months and months. It is now illegal for his employer to fire him due to his medical condition. It is unlawfull to fire someone or to not hire them based on a disability, the employer must offer modified work of some sort (within reasonable guidelines). So he does not get fired from his job.

Eventually he realizes he cannot work enough hours and is forced to quit and lose his health insurance (and or the employer lays him off for some other reason). He can continue on the same health plan he was on and suffer no lapse in coverage as long as he pays COBRA which is an elaborate overpriced scam if you ask me. So it's expensive but he can at least keep his current health care even though he is not at his employer anymore. (but it's several hundred extra a month! ****ing bastards!)

Lets assume Morten is too poor to afford the COBRA plan and just loses his insurance once he leaves his employer. So he is now unemployed and without health insurance, and he is unable to work due to his disability.

First, he would get a nice disability check, potentially an unemployment check (though most likely not since he doesn't plan on working any more), and he also becomes eligible for welfare and cheap housing and free food stamps (by food stamps I mean a pre-loaded credit card that you can spend on nearly anything or take out in cash at an ATM). So he is getting multiple checks from the government but is still screwed with his heathcare situation. He gets whatever treatment he wants regardless of how much money he has, but has to pay for it later on just like any other bill.

So let's imagine he goes to the doctor and the Dr. tells him that the treatment will cost a million dollars which he could never afford. Luckily in America it is highly illigal to not treat someone just because they don't have money, so he is patched up like any other insured patient and then gets sent home with a bill. The bill is then reduced by some amount since he is uninsured and the regular rates are for the rich insurance companies so if you don't have insurance they will usually drop a lot of the charge. Still, this can ammount to 10's of thousands of dollars or more which most people can't afford. Morten now has to pay his bill on a payment plan each month

Anyways, so guy ends up in a bad financial situation which really should not be happening, but all in all it's not like he doesn't get treatment or he's thrown out on his ass or something. It's would be more factually correct to say "Health care is expensive in the united states, heart surgery may leave you with a big bill", more so than sayin "If you get sick and your poor you just die".



So to recap:

*Everyone has healthcare, EVERYONE without exception, 100% of americans are treated for their injuries regardless of race, creed, financial status, religion etc etc. If a fugitive who had just shot 30 people showed up in an emergency room without a dollar to his name, they would glady treat him immediately for no charge up front, but they will send him a bill for whatever procedures they performed and he is expected to pay it like any other debt, usually in installment plans over the period of several years.


So from front to back the only difference is about where the money comes from. In the american system the bill gets sent to us and we pay it in installments each month, whereas in europe they send the bill to the government and then you pay the government monthly via taxes. The only reason I favor a socialized system is that I think it would be easier for everyone to just pay the government and then let them handle it. They will handle it poorly and I expect to see care decline if the government touches it in any way, but I do expect it to get cheaper which is really all I care about.











No one is denied, even if you are an illegal alien or a serial murderer. They can't come beat you up to get their money, if you can't pay than you can't pay, set up an installment plan like 100 a month or something or simply don't pay them, they can't come take the money by force. Best thing they could do is convince the gov to garnish your wages years down the line and take %20 each check. Could be worse.


We have a large social net that sends our poor lots of money, they are fine. What you described is a tragic scenario that happens when middle class people end up with huge medical bills and it really makes life hard. The government does not look out for the middle class, only the very poor and the very rich, so Mr. Morten is likely on his own

[nicodude]

Yea, tell the 3000 people that died on 9/11 that the war is rubbish. Just curious, are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church? You seem to share similar views.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

[frazz]

Wow, I was completely unaware that the world was so black and white! Let me explain a little better how it works here:

Disclaimer: I would like to premise this by saying that I like Norways system better, a) because I am norweigean and b) because it just works better for all of the reasons you explained. I am not opposed to a socialist health care system.


Morten lived a happy suburban life with a wife and two children, in a middle class area in san francisco. One day his doctor diagnosis him with a potentially fatal brain tumor. He then goes on medical disability leave for several months where he does not have to work (at reduced pay but still a decent amount), in fact, no brian tumor is necessary to be on disability, if he feels too "stressed" for any reason at work he can take 6 months off just like any american worker can. Anyways, so he first takes a few months off on disability, where he is paid a reduced wage but is allowed to recover at home for months and months. It is now illegal for his employer to fire him due to his medical condition. It is unlawfull to fire someone or to not hire them based on a disability, the employer must offer modified work of some sort (within reasonable guidelines). So he does not get fired from his job.

Eventually he realizes he cannot work enough hours and is forced to quit and lose his health insurance (and or the employer lays him off for some other reason). He can continue on the same health plan he was on and suffer no lapse in coverage as long as he pays COBRA which is an elaborate overpriced scam if you ask me. So it's expensive but he can at least keep his current health care even though he is not at his employer anymore. (but it's several hundred extra a month! ****ing bastards!)

Lets assume Morten is too poor to afford the COBRA plan and just loses his insurance once he leaves his employer. So he is now unemployed and without health insurance, and he is unable to work due to his disability.

First, he would get a nice disability check, potentially an unemployment check (though most likely not since he doesn't plan on working any more), and he also becomes eligible for welfare and cheap housing and free food stamps (by food stamps I mean a pre-loaded credit card that you can spend on nearly anything or take out in cash at an ATM). So he is getting multiple checks from the government but is still screwed with his heathcare situation. He gets whatever treatment he wants regardless of how much money he has, but has to pay for it later on just like any other bill.

So let's imagine he goes to the doctor and the Dr. tells him that the treatment will cost a million dollars which he could never afford. Luckily in America it is highly illigal to not treat someone just because they don't have money, so he is patched up like any other insured patient and then gets sent home with a bill. The bill is then reduced by some amount since he is uninsured and the regular rates are for the rich insurance companies so if you don't have insurance they will usually drop a lot of the charge. Still, this can ammount to 10's of thousands of dollars or more which most people can't afford. Morten now has to pay his bill on a payment plan each month

Anyways, so guy ends up in a bad financial situation which really should not be happening, but all in all it's not like he doesn't get treatment or he's thrown out on his ass or something. It's would be more factually correct to say "Health care is expensive in the united states, heart surgery may leave you with a big bill", more so than sayin "If you get sick and your poor you just die".



So to recap:

*Everyone has healthcare, EVERYONE without exception, 100% of americans are treated for their injuries regardless of race, creed, financial status, religion etc etc. If a fugitive who had just shot 30 people showed up in an emergency room without a dollar to his name, they would glady treat him immediately for no charge up front, but they will send him a bill for whatever procedures they performed and he is expected to pay it like any other debt, usually in installment plans over the period of several years.


So from front to back the only difference is about where the money comes from. In the american system the bill gets sent to us and we pay it in installments each month, whereas in europe they send the bill to the government and then you pay the government monthly via taxes. The only reason I favor a socialized system is that I think it would be easier for everyone to just pay the government and then let them handle it. They will handle it poorly and I expect to see care decline if the government touches it in any way, but I do expect it to get cheaper which is really all I care about.











No one is denied, even if you are an illegal alien or a serial murderer. They can't come beat you up to get their money, if you can't pay than you can't pay, set up an installment plan like 100 a month or something or simply don't pay them, they can't come take the money by force. Best thing they could do is convince the gov to garnish your wages years down the line and take %20 each check. Could be worse.


We have a large social net that sends our poor lots of money, they are fine. What you described is a tragic scenario that happens when middle class people end up with huge medical bills and it really makes life hard. The government does not look out for the middle class, only the very poor and the very rich, so Mr. Morten is likely on his own

Dont forget that when he gets the bill he can't afford, he can file for bankruptcy and not be responsible for any of it! What a country!

[frazz]

When I do see the Catholics attack lead by his holiness Osama Bin-Pope-in, I will recant in the forum for all to see

[sgreger1]

Google it, turds:

Japan

The Japanese Foreign Ministry said that it would provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina. Japan also identified needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and provided up to $1,000,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if they receive requests from the U.S. for such assistance. Private and corporate donations totaled over $13,000,000.[33] One Japanese individual, Takashi Endo, donated USD $1,000,000 from his personal funds to Katrina relief efforts.[15]

sgreger, the poor in the US "live like kings" compared to the middle class in most of the world? Are you going by income levels? The cost of goods and services in other countries relative to income? Or is it contempt for our own welfare services? Or contempt for the rest of the world? What kind of countries are you talking about here? You did say "most of the rest of the world's middle class". Just hoping you would explain that one. What you're saying is insulting to the standard of living for middle-income residents of Buenos Aires, Melbourne, Shanghai, Delhi, Kuala Lumpur, Novosibirsk, Almaty, Baku, Manchester, Sevilla ... Or maybe as a Californian you are just focused on Mexico?

Roo i'm sorry but I just can't go with anyone who thinks the poor are so terrible in America. I know we have some people in snuson that grew up in poverty or lived in the ghetto growing up, you all know exactly WTF I am talking about.

I will not name a specific countrie because I was making a broad general statement. How much of the world's poor population have thousands to spend each month, how many have big screen TV's or cars? How many have running water and cable TV? Hmm? What about electricity and central air conditioning? Because most poor people in america have 4 or more of those items plus a host of others.


Several million people STARVE to death each year, a large portion of them being in africa. According to the World Health Organization, 120 Americans died from "lack of food" in 2004 (in a population of over 300 million). And all 120 had access to free food at the time that they died, since our charitable organizations offer free food in nearly every city in America. I volunteer at food banks and they are a great operation run by good people, if your down on your luck and need some free food, give them a call and they will even deliver it to your house. You can buy more for virtually free.


Roo, if you feel that our "poor" i.e. those making under 20k in America live worse than poor people in say, South Africa, than I am not sure what to say since you are a more traveled man than I and I would expect you know better.


I don't know what contempt of welfare you think I have. I think welfare is extremely important and essentialy to the prosperity of our nation. I just feel that it should only be for the genuinely poor who need a helping hand, as opposed to how it is currently used.

[frazz]

Oh, I know this thread has gotten off topic, so let me state for the record. Help Japan.