Where are we going....as a species?

[truthwolf1]

DO YOU REALLY THINK WE ARE JUST GOING TO GET MORE FREE??? AS A SPECIES??? EVEN IN A NEW GLOBAL WORLD???

[angrylollipop]

Because of political gain/dollars our politicians have sold us out and the end result will be doom for quite a few decades for many of us and our children. We will be looking at a more illegal hispanic and middle eastern demographic with more of a current Russian living situation with multiple family members and friends living together.
The standard of living will continue to drop with globalization for everyone in America but rise considerably for those in manufacturing countries.

No more middle class but a poor working class and many, many criminals. It is going to start looking like Russia within the next 5-10 years.

Detroit style...

[xrt]

I am sorry but I have to butt in here to point out how completely wrong this assertion is that humans don't work together. Animals work together in packs etc, but they fight amongst each other as often (if not more) than we do. And humans work together all the time, everything you see around you, every structure ever built, every trade route ever established, every food or resource distirbution system ever set up is the product of humans "working together". And we are animals, we are driven by our own self interests just like the animals are, it's just that for us it's money that interests us. That is the currency of man, because we have elevated ourselves above just acquiring food and territory like the animals do. But it's all the same, and there is very little that sets us apart from the animals, EXCEPT for the fact that we work together SO WELL that we have built our own little habitat just for humans within the existing natural one.


In such a short time we have risen from the forest and built our own world, we have accomplished what the animals could not and molded the habitat to us instead of adapting to the habitat. And humans unknowingly just continue the cycle of evolution by creating and using technology. Technology is just humans taking existing systems, improving upon them, and then using whatever works best. All systems in this realm are evolutionary. The problem is that evolution doesn't pick and choose the winners, and we are more than likely going to burn ourselves out (read as: nuclear war) before we get a chance to really pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get out of this ditch.



And even if we do continue to progress, eventually we will give birth to the next step of evolution, the singularity in which we create artificial inteligence smart enough to do what we do: take existing systems and improve upon them. Eventually AI will come around and the first model will be able to make a better version of itself, then that better version will improve upon it's own design and produce a better version etc etc, until eventually the machines have elevated to a level of activity that exceeds humans by so much that we will be seen as animals to them, just like we look at the monkeys today as a mere "common ancestor". They will see us as a common ancestor, but nothing else, their ability to process information will be so exponentially greater that we will literally be like monkeys to them, of little use.


Them not being biological entities gives them the significant advantage that they can go through 1,000 iterations of improvement/evolution a million times faster than us biological organisms that require a long birthing and maturation period. Changes to our harware come about ever few million years, whereas self improving AI can advance itself every day of every week and rebuild it's own harware and software from the ground up each time. Before long they will have left us in the dust just like we did with our other bipedal ancestors such as the cromagnons and homo erectus / homo florensis so many thousands of years ago.


We are but a link in the chain of an ever changing and constantly evolving system, and random carbon particles assembling themself into self aware beings (therefore allowing the universe to become self aware and look back out and reflect on itself) is a significant step, but only one of many. Enjoy your time while you're here because humans will not always run things, we will hit our ceiling eventually and then the next best life form will take over, the one who is better adapted. It's how it has always worked and how it always will work, this conversation is like listening to dinosaurs arguing over whether or not a meteor will come and kill them one day or if they will instead take over the universe with space flight... little do they know, their contemplation is in vein because their fate is already sealed.



This is an evolutionary system. Small charged particles slowly organized into larger more complex systoms of things like carbon atoms, who formed into things like the first single celled organisms, who then became humans. Do you really think it stops there? And all the while, unbenounced to the human race, we have been "working ourselves out of a job" as it were by investing so much in the advancement of technology, because eventually it will lead to us giving birth to the next link in the chain, who will go on to eventually create the nex tlink and the next until every sun in the known universe has burned out and the whole thing collapses bakc on itself back to a single point, only to be reborn again in a giant bang. Then we get to do it all over again. So enjoy your golden age humans, it is short and it's days are numbered.


Signed,
Your future robotic overloards

You are very right, good post !
You have good insight.

When I mentioned animals being better then human beings you are right on that they do also attack and kill other animals.
To some degree they are not better then us.
But I would just like to point out that if there is one special creature on this earth, one you can always count on.
That is more there for you then comrades in battle, it's the dog.
They are special and I always say that a dog is like a human, they have all the needs we have.

http://www.essortment.com/dogs-good-pets-23278.html

After reading this I came to the conclusion that a dog is really all you need.

[sgreger1]

You are very right, good post !
You have good insight.

When I mentioned animals being better then human beings you are right on that they do also attack and kill other animals.
To some degree they are not better then us.
But I would just like to point out that if there is one special creature on this earth, one you can always count on.
That is more there for you then comrades in battle, it's the dog.
They are special and I always say that a dog is like a human, they have all the needs we have.

http://www.essortment.com/dogs-good-pets-23278.html

After reading this I came to the conclusion that a dog is really all you need.

I'll have to check out the link xrt, thanks for posting it. Dogs are the way they are because that is how we bread them. Again, not only have we adapted to the point where we now run our own habitat within the larger natural habitat, but we also influence and actively select for specific features in the plants and animals that we come into contact with. Dogs are the way they are because we selected for those specific qualities, and after thousands and thousands of years of selective breeding we end up with man's best friend. It it noteworthy to mention that dogs were not always this way, but took a long time to get them to be the helpers that they are today (and the variety that we see today as well).

Animals are no better or worse than humans, we are all the same. And at the end of the day all things in the univeerse are really all just parts of the larger system, individual items that (in agrigate) form the larger universe. The energy/mass changes forms but it never goes anywhere, it just gets recycled over and over again. We all started as energy and eventually when we die we will return back to the cosmos from which we came, part of the larger whole once again. This subjective belief humans have that we are individuals is part of an elaborate system the mamalian brain uses to trick us into doing what mother nature wants, but we are not individuals, we are just part of the whole in the same way that the plants and animals are part of the whole. The ants do their part and always act like ants, the lions do their part and always act like lions, and the humans do their part and always act like humans. You and I just so happened to have been recycled into a vessel that has the hardware capabilities for self-awareness and higher level thinking, but we aren't much different than animals in most ways. Any alien species observing us would have a hard time differentiating between us and anything else on this planet. For example, if humans didn't exist, one may look at the monkey and say "wow, they seem to really be thinking more than the rest, they seem to have an advantage and they use it for survival whenever they get the chance", but at the end of the day they are still just monkeys, just another animal. The same is true with humans, we put on a big show and build more elaborate structures etc, but objectively we are all animals who are mainly guided by instinct and operate on a very flimsy version of "free will" in that we have the ability to use logic to make our next decision, such as to eat an apple or a banana for breakfast, but at the end of the day the forces driving us to be hungry in the first place were already pre-programmed, as were the inviting flavor of apples and bananas to our pallete. Some people would not define that as true free will. Same with alcoholism or being a criminal, a lot of it is just bred into us, we just have a slightly higher than average ability to overcome our own genetics.



I will have to find the link, but I recently saw an interesting thing were scientists were observing the monkeys around a popular tourist island location. The monkeys would come in and steal alcohol regularly from tourists who left it lying around. The fascinating thing was that they exibited the same patterns we see in humans in that most drank in moderation, a smaller percentage drank only socially, a smaller percentage obstained from alcohol entirely, and about 5% ended up becoming alcoholics who were dependant on it, statistics just like we observe within the human population. Are some monkeys using their free will to obstain, are others just lazy bums, and is their choice to drink it or not to drink it really free will in the way that we would commonly define it?

We tend to think of ourselves as somethign special, but objectively I see little that is special about us. We all fight amongst each other over territory and women, we are all driven by survival, then ego, as in first we strive to survive, and once we have that down we move on to other things like acquiring money and nice things. Animals are the same way, just most of them don't ever get past the survival (eating, finding shelter) stage.



Even the common pea is the way it is today because of our (unconscious) selection process. Wild peas originally reproduced by exploding out of the pod once they were ripe. A rare genetic mutation made it so that some pea plants had a faulty "popping" mechanism and the peas would therefore remain in the pod, where they would never get spread onto the soil to reproduce and therefore would die off. However, once humans came around, we tended to eat the ones that stayed in the pod since they were already wrapped in a neat little package and ready to be consumed, hence we unconsciousely started selecting for only the peas that contained this genetic mutation that previously was of no use to the pea plant. We would eat them and then go poop them out at the latrine back at the camp. Eventually humans realized that the peas which didn't explode out of their pods were growing over by the latrine, and the pea found a new way to survive which is why it kept that mutation in it's genetics, because the humans would eat them if they remained in the pod once ripe and the humans would then travel a great distance and give birth to their offspring over by the latrine by spreading the seeds through the act of deficating. The orriginal genetics of the pea only allowed it to reproduce within a few feet of the initial pea pod because it could only send it's seeds as far our as the explosion allowed for. But with this new genetic mutation, humans would come by and eat the peas and then walk aaaaallll the way back to their camp and poop the seeds out there. This was much more effective for the peas (and for humans) and once humans began agriclture, they selectively bread for the peas with the mutation allowing them to stay in the pod, therefore today we mainly see peas which stay in the pod all the way until they get to the grocery store where we open them up and enjoy them with a delicious sushi dinner


Selection and evolution is constant and even the creatures performing the selection are often times not immediately aware of what they are doing or that they are part of the selection process. We are all part of the larger whole. This is why I don't worry too much about global warming, it could just be part of the selection process and may give us all a head start on adpating before the next warm period comes so that it does't catch us all by surprise.

[xrt]

I'll have to check out the link xrt, thanks for posting it. Dogs are the way they are because that is how we bread them. Again, not only have we adapted to the point where we now run our own habitat within the larger natural habitat, but we also influence and actively select for specific features in the plants and animals that we come into contact with. Dogs are the way they are because we selected for those specific qualities, and after thousands and thousands of years of selective breeding we end up with man's best friend. It it noteworthy to mention that dogs were not always this way, but took a long time to get them to be the helpers that they are today (and the variety that we see today as well).

Animals are no better or worse than humans, we are all the same. And at the end of the day all things in the univeerse are really all just parts of the larger system, individual items that (in agrigate) form the larger universe. The energy/mass changes forms but it never goes anywhere, it just gets recycled over and over again. We all started as energy and eventually when we die we will return back to the cosmos from which we came, part of the larger whole once again. This subjective belief humans have that we are individuals is part of an elaborate system the mamalian brain uses to trick us into doing what mother nature wants, but we are not individuals, we are just part of the whole in the same way that the plants and animals are part of the whole. The ants do their part and always act like ants, the lions do their part and always act like lions, and the humans do their part and always act like humans. You and I just so happened to have been recycled into a vessel that has the hardware capabilities for self-awareness and higher level thinking, but we aren't much different than animals in most ways. Any alien species observing us would have a hard time differentiating between us and anything else on this planet. For example, if humans didn't exist, one may look at the monkey and say "wow, they seem to really be thinking more than the rest, they seem to have an advantage and they use it for survival whenever they get the chance", but at the end of the day they are still just monkeys, just another animal. The same is true with humans, we put on a big show and build more elaborate structures etc, but objectively we are all animals who are mainly guided by instinct and operate on a very flimsy version of "free will" in that we have the ability to use logic to make our next decision, such as to eat an apple or a banana for breakfast, but at the end of the day the forces driving us to be hungry in the first place were already pre-programmed, as were the inviting flavor of apples and bananas to our pallete. Some people would not define that as true free will. Same with alcoholism or being a criminal, a lot of it is just bred into us, we just have a slightly higher than average ability to overcome our own genetics.



I will have to find the link, but I recently saw an interesting thing were scientists were observing the monkeys around a popular tourist island location. The monkeys would come in and steal alcohol regularly from tourists who left it lying around. The fascinating thing was that they exibited the same patterns we see in humans in that most drank in moderation, a smaller percentage drank only socially, a smaller percentage obstained from alcohol entirely, and about 5% ended up becoming alcoholics who were dependant on it, statistics just like we observe within the human population. Are some monkeys using their free will to obstain, are others just lazy bums, and is their choice to drink it or not to drink it really free will in the way that we would commonly define it?

We tend to think of ourselves as somethign special, but objectively I see little that is special about us. We all fight amongst each other over territory and women, we are all driven by survival, then ego, as in first we strive to survive, and once we have that down we move on to other things like acquiring money and nice things. Animals are the same way, just most of them don't ever get past the survival (eating, finding shelter) stage.



Even the common pea is the way it is today because of our (unconscious) selection process. Wild peas originally reproduced by exploding out of the pod once they were ripe. A rare genetic mutation made it so that some pea plants had a faulty "popping" mechanism and the peas would therefore remain in the pod, where they would never get spread onto the soil to reproduce and therefore would die off. However, once humans came around, we tended to eat the ones that stayed in the pod since they were already wrapped in a neat little package and ready to be consumed, hence we unconsciousely started selecting for only the peas that contained this genetic mutation that previously was of no use to the pea plant. We would eat them and then go poop them out at the latrine back at the camp. Eventually humans realized that the peas which didn't explode out of their pods were growing over by the latrine, and the pea found a new way to survive which is why it kept that mutation in it's genetics, because the humans would eat them if they remained in the pod once ripe and the humans would then travel a great distance and give birth to their offspring over by the latrine by spreading the seeds through the act of deficating. The orriginal genetics of the pea only allowed it to reproduce within a few feet of the initial pea pod because it could only send it's seeds as far our as the explosion allowed for. But with this new genetic mutation, humans would come by and eat the peas and then walk aaaaallll the way back to their camp and poop the seeds out there. This was much more effective for the peas (and for humans) and once humans began agriclture, they selectively bread for the peas with the mutation allowing them to stay in the pod, therefore today we mainly see peas which stay in the pod all the way until they get to the grocery store where we open them up and enjoy them with a delicious sushi dinner


Selection and evolution is constant and even the creatures performing the selection are often times not immediately aware of what they are doing or that they are part of the selection process. We are all part of the larger whole. This is why I don't worry too much about global warming, it could just be part of the selection process and may give us all a head start on adpating before the next warm period comes so that it does't catch us all by surprise.

Incredible! Yet another great post. I like the part about us going back after we die, that we are all just energy.
Infact, Robert Monroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Monroe) (The creator of Hemi-Sync, and author of books like "journeys out of the body") stated over and over again that we are just energy. He found this out during his own out of body experiences. But each man must find this out for himself.
OBEs are the key into another realm. Check out his book(s) or the hemisync tapes (The gateway experience - There are torrents of these tapes)
I got to the state called "Focus 10" where the body is asleep and the mind is bright & alert. Next thing I had these wild vibrations in my body.
My heart was beating at a rate I have never experienced before. Later on I was told that this was me close to having and OBE.

People with wisedom like you have are a joy to talk with!

[Frosted]

Incredible! Yet another great post. I like the part about us going back after we die, that we are all just energy.
Infact, Robert Monroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Monroe) (The creator of Hemi-Sync, and author of books like "journeys out of the body") stated over and over again that we are just energy. He found this out during his own out of body experiences. But each man must find this out for himself.
OBEs are the key into another realm. Check out his book(s) or the hemisync tapes (The gateway experience - There are torrents of these tapes)
I got to the state called "Focus 10" where the body is asleep and the mind is bright & alert. Next thing I had these wild vibrations in my body.
My heart was beating at a rate I have never experienced before. Later on I was told that this was me close to having and OBE.

People with wisedom like you have are a joy to talk with!

You can easily get to a similar state with mantra meditation. Anybody can do it.

[xrt]

You can easily get to a similar state with mantra meditation. Anybody can do it.

Sure.

[HK11]

You can easily get to a similar state with mantra meditation. Anybody can do it.

I have tried hemisync (gateway and journeys), and also mantra and I think they are both cool but both are hypnosis. Nothing wrong with that in itself.

The coolest method I have found is concentrate in the forehead and be aware of your right hand. Whenever a scene starts to grab your attention and take you to sleep (if you know what I mean), use your right hand to pull yourself out. With the goal being that you let the thoughts pass by without distracting you, but not sleeping. It takes practice for sure.

Ive been using that method for a while and its the best at getting deep without crashing out or getting hypnotized.

[Frosted]

I have tried hemisync (gateway and journeys), and also mantra and I think they are both cool but both are hypnosis. Nothing wrong with that in itself.

The coolest method I have found is concentrate in the forehead and be aware of your right hand. Whenever a scene starts to grab your attention and take you to sleep (if you know what I mean), use your right hand to pull yourself out. With the goal being that you let the thoughts pass by without distracting you, but not sleeping. It takes practice for sure.

Ive been using that method for a while and its the best at getting deep without crashing out or getting hypnotized.

This is interesting but I don't understand what you mean - the method that is.
When I first did mantra I was going very deep and suffered groggy side effects - I control how deep I go now but I still have to be careful. It can mong a person and I don't like that but most sessions are extremely positive.
If I could get a better idea of what you mean I wouldn't mind trying your method.

[HK11]

This is interesting but I don't understand what you mean - the method that is.
When I first did mantra I was going very deep and suffered groggy side effects - I control how deep I go now but I still have to be careful. It can mong a person and I don't like that but most sessions are extremely positive.
If I could get a better idea of what you mean I wouldn't mind trying your method.

Just a technique I read about a couple of years ago by a crackpot named Roy Masters, who teaches not to concentrate on anything and not allowing yourself to go into the past or future in your thoughts by keeping yourself in the moment.

You use the right hand imagery to "pull" yourself back into the moment when you start to wander and allow the thoughts to flow past you. It was pretty hard for me to do this with any success but it's the most enjoyable way for me.

With other methods I tend to put thoughts into compartments where they continually resurface and distract me. But everyone is different

[Snusdog]

Just a technique I read about a couple of years ago by a crackpot named Roy Masters, who teaches not to concentrate on anything and not allowing yourself to go into the past or future in your thoughts by keeping yourself in the moment.

You use the right hand imagery to "pull" yourself back into the moment when you start to wander and allow the thoughts to flow past you. It was pretty hard for me to do this with any success but it's the most enjoyable way for me.

With other methods I tend to put thoughts into compartments where they continually resurface and distract me. But everyone is different

I have no idea what this thread is about...........I'll read it later

All I know is that.......................HK is back in the house

Damn bro..............PP must really bang those barrel lids on pretty tight

Good to see ya mate...............

[sgreger1]

Just a technique I read about a couple of years ago by a crackpot named Roy Masters, who teaches not to concentrate on anything and not allowing yourself to go into the past or future in your thoughts by keeping yourself in the moment.

You use the right hand imagery to "pull" yourself back into the moment when you start to wander and allow the thoughts to flow past you. It was pretty hard for me to do this with any success but it's the most enjoyable way for me.

With other methods I tend to put thoughts into compartments where they continually resurface and distract me. But everyone is different

1. I have followed Roy Masters for a long time, and my father does as well. Roy Masters is not a crackpot, well, sort of. I've read his thesis on physics and he seems hellbent on bringing back the idea of the lumuniferous ether. Frankly his whole mixing creationsm with science is BS. But his meditation technique you described is the single best one in my opinion. He is the master at that and I recommend everyone try out his technique. www.FHS.com


The idea behind his method is the same as all meditation, we have this thing where we have developed higher level thinking and ration/logic, but are still hardwired in many ways like an animal in that we work on instinct and a lot of our processes are still controlled by the brain stem. A lot more of you is automated or pre-programmed than most are willing to recognize. His whole thing is that the human mind tends to get too caught up in thinking and never takes a minute to sit back and ignore the chatter of your brain and let it relax for a minute.

The brain is partitioned into two parts essentially:

1. Is the hard processing center that does all of the math and makes all of the connections in the background. This part takes in all of the sensory data from your five senses and assembles it into a coherent picture based on patterns, some of which come pre-programmed and some of which we learn over the course of a lifetime.

2. The second part is the conscious observer, the little voice in your head, the thing you would refer to as "you". The brain does most of the processing in the background and then prompts the conscious observer with whatever information it flags as "usefull". For example, humans are great at recognizing patters, we look at a field of grass and see grass, but the crafty lion or snake is camoflauged to blend in with the grass, so the brain has to be good at recognizing patterns to pick out potential dangers. It tends to err on the side of caution too, so it often times prompts you with patterns where no actual pattern exist, this is why you see shapes in clouds or faces on the the stucko/drywall in your house, your brain is taking all of that noise and trying to find the patterns behind it, and our brains tend to find patterns in random noise that look like things which we can recognize. Hence you tend to notice the cloud that looks like a giant penis more than you would the other more bland clouds, or you tend to notice the one rock that is shaped like a woman etc etc.

When you get a "gut feeling" or you just fell like "something is right", it is because the brain has already done a rough estimate of all of the math and prompted you immediately with what it thinks is the best decision based on past experience, instincts etc. But it is part 2, the consciouse observer, who has the "free will" to execute the decision or not. The background procesing is involuntary, but the consciouse observer makes voluntary decisions, this is loosly what we define as free will. This is why sometimes in a split second decision you follow your gut, because a lot more calculation goes into that gut feeling than you realize. Additionally, this can be trained into someone: As a soldier, they constantly try to create an environment similar to the one you will be faced with when you deploy. That way, once deployed, when you hear shots fired or when x,y, or z happens, it's all muscle memory and you automatically act in the appropriate manner as a matter of instinct, there is almost no thinking behind it sometimes. Others can relate similar stories in their personal lives, a seasoned stock broker could look at two financial reports and without really doing all the math and could pick the one that looks like a better one to invest in based on just a cursory overlook. This is because his brain has already adapted to that environment and his unconsciouse mind prompts him with a rough estimate of which of the two best fits the patterns for success that he has already established in the past through his prior experiences. A seasoned shooter doens't always have to think too much when shooting, they are better at "shooting from the hip" as it were because their mental process is already trained for a certain outcome etc etc. This is why sometimes, once you get good at something like basketball, it's best not to think too much before shooting the ball, you just kind of throw the ball and it tends to make it in more often, because your unconscious mind already has it programmed in as muscle memory so it knows how to get the ball in the hoop. This is why practice makes perfect, you have to form the right connections and pound it into your brain enough until it becomes a matter of second nature, like driving a manual transmission or riding a bicycle, once you learn it it just becomes second nature and doesn't require you to actively focus your mind on it to accomplish the task, it just kind of comes to you.

Anyways, the problem is that in the busy life of the modern human, the 2nd part of the brain (the conscious observer) is always busy thinking too much. There are limited resources to go around in the brain and often times we get into this spiral where we think negatively or just can't lay down at night and stop the chatter going on in your head, and this constant chatter can lead to illness and stress/anxiety because we think too much and the brain doesn't ever get a quiet moment to sit there and just relax. Roy Masters meditation teaches you to seperate yourself, to partition the conscious mind into two parts, the goal being to be able to sit quietly and watch your thoughts pass by without getting sucked into them, to be able to step outside of the little box you've created for yourself in your head and look back onto it objectively. It's about not thinking, just focusing on your hand for example, be aware that it is there, imagine the hand in your head even without looking a it, and to sort of slow the mind down to the point where you can actively watch your thoughts and chatter float by. This often times leads to the person falling asleep or slipping into a daydream, but it takes practice and it works.


In short, Roy Masters meditation is something any meditator should look into. It's a great beginners way of getting into meditation and I have personally had great succes with it.

[internope]

Roy Masters is not a crackpot, well, sort of.

That had me actually LOL-ing here at work.