Video smuggled out of N Korea, shows declining state.

[sgreger1]

Video smuggled out of North Korea. Children begging, army starving. More evidence of famine within the secretive State.


You should go read the book "Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea" if you haven't already. It documents the lives of 4 North Koreans who eventually defected like Soon Ok Lee. The part that struck me the most was the description of a North Korean doctor who defected to China after suffering through the famine of the 90's for months. She stumbled into the yard of a Chinese family after crossing the border and found a dog food bowl full of rice & meat. Food that she hadn't seen in months in North Korea. She said that it was her final act of disillusionment of the North Korean regime when she realized first hand that dogs in China were fed better than doctors in North Korea.

[sgreger1]

TOM: You must read this.

This is a testimony from a N Korean defector regarding the underground concentration camps. This is the most brutal thing I have ever read, this is worse than Hitler's concentration camps, worse than the book 1984. Everyone should read this, but especially Tom, since he loves N Korea so much

http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings...281fe18baf-2-1



Also,

North Korea slashes food rations to 150 grams of rice per day. One hundred grams of rice produces about 250-350 calories

But good news, the chocolate ration has increased from 25mg up to 20mg!


Also: North Korea blame loss to U.S. on players getting struck by lightning

Considering the "training" they are forced to go through and the fact they (and their families) can be placed in a re-education/concentration camp for failing to win the game, I'm willing to accept the "fact" they were "struck by lightning."
Hope they can escape one day. The security guards are there to keep them from defecting...


Of course, the training might be the reason it's true. In any free country, the players would get the **** off the field in a lightning storm. In any other country, the practice field would have some bleachers which would divert lightning strikes. In North Korea, they'll keep playing in a bare field through a tornado, if necessary to keep their families safe.

[Darwin]

Ever get the the feeling that North Korea has somehow been transported in from another dimension where all the nightmares of Orwell are absolutely true? It's not that it is so amazing that such a spectacular basket case of a country exists on this planet but that such a living nightmare can exist at all.

[AtreyuKun]

Jesus sgreger, that was a f*cked up thing to read.....

[rickcharles606]

Wow, that was a heavy read. It's hard to believe people are actually treated that way, but it's good to know the types of atrocities that are taking place in N.Korea. Everyone should read this. It really makes you appreciate what we have, and shows just how important it is for us to protect the Constitution of the United States of America from those in our gov't that would see it relegated to a thing of the past.

[sgreger1]

It reads worse than 1984, it's like room 101 but for the entire country! lol.

Nothing new though, all tyrants do this eventually.

For those who havn't read it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

Lenin did the same with the Russia, he laid the frame work for a slave labor economy, then Stalin expanded it way more into the vast Gulag system that was so prevalent for a long time. Americans interned the japanese to seperate them from the population, and it wasn't pretty, but I don't believe we have ever gone this far down the rabbit hole before. Soon though. Soon enough.

While reading things like this is almost like reading science fiction, it certainly makes me more appreciative of the things I have. I just wish I could get on a plane and go give all my food and clothes to these people, but unfortunately they have been all but cut off from the rest of the world.

I'd like to hear Tom's comments on this, considering he thinks N Korea to be the best example of a model political system. Cummon Tom, you know you wanna bite!

[tom502]

I don't believe the US war propaganda.
You could make a video of the slums and millions of homeless, overfull prisons, gangs, and such in the USA.

We are at war with N.Korea, and the US never allows any aspect of anything good about it's enemies to be presented.

Remember when Diane Sawyer went to N.Korea? It didn't look bad at all.
Many people have voluntarily moved to live in N.Korea.

Does it have some bad aspects? Sure.
Most, I believe are from the US, which punishes those that refuse to lick it's feet.

[Darwin]

The U.S. indeed interned Japanese citizens during the war but promptly released them afterwards (before in many cases) and did not hound them for the rest of their lives as was/is the case in all dictatorships. It was a misstep for sure but researching it in detail reveals that it was far less evil and misbegotten than is commonly assumed at the remove of the extensive civil rights obsessed nature of our modern world.

There unfortunately exists a degree of admiration in some Progressive circles for the "strongman" type of political system because it is one that can "get things done" without recourse to all the messiness of consensual democracy. For pundits such as one T. Friedman there is a wistfulness for such a strongman's approach to "solving" such current political hobbyhorses such as climate change and universal health care. Apparently these issues are of such catastrophically overwhelming importance that the citizens of liberal democracies, the venal selfish bastards, cannot be trusted to address them "properly" so what is really needed is some uber-leader who will ride roughshod over we pathetic dolts who value our right to dissent and collectively decide on these issues. Ironic considering how every strongman and or tinpot dictator in history has entirely ignored these "critical" issues to the negative benefit of "their" citizenry. Wistfulness based on that record is puzzling indeed.

[Snussles]

I was expecting a video, that was slideshow of photos. :/

[Crow]

An interesting documentary I stumbled upon when I was doing some research on the North Korean government... You can tell a lot of it was staged by the DPRK's Film Propaganda department, but it's definitely worth a watch:

[AtreyuKun]

I'm not saying that I totally agree with Tom there, but he is right about one thing I know of. I know that's one of the ways propaganda works: We see how utterly awful it is there, and then told be thankful for our great and wonderful country. Sure we have problems here at home, but it still the best damn place on earth to live. Whether it's true or not, we're conditioned to think like that.

[sgreger1]

I was expecting a video, that was slideshow of photos. :/

The video is linked to in the news article.

[sgreger1]

I'm not saying that I totally agree with Tom there, but he is right about one thing I know of. I know that's one of the ways propaganda works: We see how utterly awful it is there, and then told be thankful for our great and wonderful country. Sure we have problems here at home, but it still the best damn place on earth to live. Whether it's true or not, we're conditioned to think like that.

And I agree completely re: American propaganda, but you would have to be blind to think that this is a fairytale. Any rational person can see that this is not the product of US propaganda. Every single dissident who has escaped N Korea has the same story to tell. You can even cut the US out entirely, as these defectors usually escape to either S Korea or China, and they have the same things to say, this isn't just some story made up by the US.

Tom, I can see your not believing the holocaust because you weren't alive so it seems like some tall tale from the past, but there is no evidence to the contrary that N Korea isn't a shithole running gulags and forced labor camps. And every single person who has escaped has the same story to tell. The US really has nothing to do with it.


Americans prisons are not gulags, it's like a small walled off welfare ghetto, where you get 3 meals a day, a place to sleep, exercise, and TV, and all you gotta do is live in an enclosed totalitarian ghetto (but still ahve access to drugs and can speak with your family, have congugal visits etc). But that is a step up from even a regular person in N Korea, they are not getting the 3 meals a day that our prisoners get, so I don't think you comparison is fair.

[brant]

I don't believe the US war propaganda.
You could make a video of the slums and millions of homeless, overfull prisons, gangs, and such in the USA.

We are at war with N.Korea, and the US never allows any aspect of anything good about it's enemies to be presented.

Remember when Diane Sawyer went to N.Korea? It didn't look bad at all.
Many people have voluntarily moved to live in N.Korea.

Does it have some bad aspects? Sure.
Most, I believe are from the US, which punishes those that refuse to lick it's feet.

There is irony in this statement, of course ... in this belief ... it's good that Tom can have his beliefs in this matter ... as well as the Holocaust ... which is what makes this country great, and this forum too ... but I would wager, based on my own distillation of all the news that is out there (and we should all have a keen eye that everything we read is tainted, slanted or filtered in some way or another, it's impossible to be completely objective re: anything) , that one couldn't utter this statement as a North Korean ... in North Korea. Just my opinion of course. I respect everyone's on this matter.

[snusjus]

Although I'm a leftist (in most aspects) and sympathize with socialist ideals, I would NEVER want to live in North Korea. That's just my 2 cents.