Bomb in Norway?

[lxskllr]

Good seein' ya Tom; I'm glad you're still around. Are you still off the demon weed?

[tom502]

I have totally quit all tobacco. I don't even know how long it's been. My buddy came over last weekend, who smokes, and I did smoke 3 cigs. But I'd do that occasionally when drinking anyway, and do not consider that as actively using. As such, I really haven't had an urge or reason to post in while, as I don't use tobacco now. But I always liked the openness of this forum in regards to discussing current events, and with this Norway story, I thought to contribute.

[Ansel]

Hey Tom, good to see you - have you thought about smoking a tobacco pipe?

[lxskllr]

Oh, and btw, the primary author of the paper is the one who decided docx was a suitable format. His reasons for doing so? Most people have MS Office. Those that don't can download a trial copy, or pirate it :^S

Seriously?! You have a problem with immigrant crime, and the best solution for people to read your ideas is to use a proprietary format, and take it if needed?? Your idea's so awesome that it should be left for history, but you give it to a private FOREIGN company for archival. Fsckin' dumbass.

He clearly has issues thinking. He isn't crazy, nor a madman, nor anything else. He's just like all of us, except he has trouble getting the neurons firing properly. I'm a few pages into the book, and I'm having trouble reconciling the sometimes thoughtful ideas, with the ridiculous solutions. It's a peculiar mental disconnect, if he isn't just parroting material from other people :^/

[justintempler]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...EiLlQ.facebook

Norway shooting: Anders Behring Breivik plagiarised 'Unabomber'
Anders Behring Breivik, the suspect in Norway's twin attacks that killed at least 93 people, appeared to plagiarise large chunks of his manifesto from the writings of Theodore Kaczynski, the “Unabomber”, it has emerged....

[lxskllr]

I'm on page 99/1519 O.o

The history, and interpretation of Islam is interesting, but there's too many repetitious examples. The whole thing's wordier than it needs to be. If accurate, it paints a poor picture of Islam. I'm sure this isn't the best source for theological study, and I'm not sure I want to go down the rabbit hole looking for more :^D Here's the points that stand out for me...

The basis for Islam is the Quran, and Muhammad's life.

Any ambiguity in the Quran can be rectified by seeing how Muhammad lived. Muhammad was perfect.

The Quran is the infallible word of Allah. Between that, and Muhammad's life, if you're doing something different, you're doing it wrong. There's no room for interpretation.

Later passages in the Quran always supersede earlier passages. The lovey dovey stuff was early in the Quran, and the war stuff was later...

Lying about Islam is ok, as long as your heart is pure. In other words, to protect yourself from harm, or to further Islam, you can say just about anything as long as you don't really believe it.

This is most dangerous point so far. How can you deal with someone if you can't be sure of the truth? Any discussion of intention has to go back to the Quran. The Quran will trump anything said by a human since it's the word of Allah, and humans have divine authorization to lie to further their goals.

[Joe234]

Glenn Beck compares camp in Norway to the
Hitler Youth.

[RobsanX]

I really wish that Glenn Beck would just fade into obscurity, but people can't stop talking about him...

[Snusify]

We should all become pastafarians

[truthwolf1]

If he was a self directed insane NEOCON or this was a mind-op, I am still trying to make sense as to why he or they wanted to prove a point with the Labour party kids.. If this was to prove dissatisfaction with the current support for a Palestinian state then this might of worked if he was looking to get away with it and blame it on "alciada but his intention was to get caught.

Maybe? the whole goal was to cause such a never seen before traumatic event even to his own "children" who he saw as future traitors, so they would never forget who he was and his Nationalistic views on the influx of muslims coming into his country.

this whole thing is a mind bender because it is a blend of Nationalism and being pro Zionist.. and from his actions absolutely nothing is gained on either the nationalistic side or even the tolerance side.

It really is strange because even though it is easy to dismiss as insanity the death count and planning all hold serious motives.

[lxskllr]

From listening to radio reports, it sounds like it was to gain publicity for his manifesto. That's certainly an effective approach, but it seems completely counterproductive to his goals. I'm still slogging through Islamic history, so I don't know what else is in there, but maybe the goals will reveal themselves in time.

[Snusdog]

What a tragic mess...........my heart goes out to the folks in Norway.

I watched the video Tom posted.

It seems to work like this
1) a series of more or less true occurrences are (miss)connected to form an overarching dilemma

2) a false idealized image of the past is presented as a model to immolate in the face of this dilemma (Templers are the aggrandized image in this case)

3) a spurious and violent solution to the dilemma is then suggested in the name of the false ideal presented in #2

That said.............what is of interest here is not that there was a religious/nationalistic nut that killed a bunch of people in the name of his cause (such has been and will be the unfortunate case as long as there is a human history)

Instead the interest will be to see how much of his "message" will resonate with the general population in the West (not to the violent extremes he took it but rather how many will say "I agree with much of what he said and while we certainly should not blow up buildings or mow down children, we do need to take a stand against these things")

Therein is the real danger

A people without recourse will begin to see buggy men lurking in every shadow..........these buggy men will then become scapegoats and the cause of all problems..........in turn ordinary people will begin to perceive extreme measures as necessary and in self defense (This is the very thing that gave rise to the Nazis in a decimated Germany after WWI)

It is Muslims and Marxists that are behind our problems................lurking in the shadows.............ploting our doom

Regardless of what one thinks about Muslims or Marxists.............at best they have merely filled a void we created by our own materialism and self-centered greed. And as long as that portion of the history is kept out of the video, the solution it offers will always be a witch hunt that does nothing to solve the real problem but only lashes out in blind and ideological frustration.

A case in point..............the Christian response to Islam is neither a capitulation to its views nor is it a violent eradication of those views. Rather, the Christian is called to offer the hope of the Gospel to all nations..................Thus, the video's cry to take arms in the name of Christ is by default errant (it was errant during the crusades...........it is errant now).

[lxskllr]

All very good points Dog. I'd like to see this raise some serious discussion in the world. As most of you know, I'm pretty nationalistic, regardless of the nation involved. I DON'T think we're all the same, and I think it's a bit much to ask of people to hang out with others at this point in our evolution. Everyone likes being around people like themselves. They'll naturally segregate along race, education, and economic lines. That's why you don't see doctors visiting their friends in the trailer park, and suburbanites aren't going to ghetto to participate in "urban culture".

I know nothing about the immigration concepts in Europe, but people need to be asking themselves what the immigrants are bringing to the table. I'm ambivalent about the Latin immigrants to the USA. The culture I grew up with is changing, and I don't like that, but the Latinos I've met have been very nice, and my food choices have gotten much better in the last 10 years or so. Of course, I'm not dealing with Latino gangs in the cities either. Around here, they keep their heads down, and try to make their way through life like the rest of us. I just take my old fallback, that everything changes for the worst, and I'll just watch the disaster as it unfolds :^D

Anyway, my point is you can't force people to think "correctly" by making them do things they don't want to do, and you have to look out for your natives first. That's great that people want to come to other countries, but we can't take everyone, and forcing drastically different cultures together is going to cause problems. What needs to be asked is do the immigrants bring more benefit than detriment for the host nation....

[sgreger1]

Didn't have time to read all of the comments, but I hope it's at least been discussed that this guy wasn't an islamic terrorist but was instead some deranged whacko who was convinced that he was part of a new "knights templar". Basically he was pissed about Muslim immegrants and lost it.

Of course now the left finally has something they can pin on a christian terrorist instead of an islamic one so they are having a field day connecting his completely rediculous "manifesto" with right wing blogs which he quotes heavily. This guy is a tool and I hope he rots, and (to borrow from forest gump) that's all I have to say about that.


EDIT: Close call too, my mom was right where the bombing happened in Oslo like 3 days before this all occured!

[gax1985]

I'm on page 99/1519 O.o

The history, and interpretation of Islam is interesting, but there's too many repetitious examples. The whole thing's wordier than it needs to be. If accurate, it paints a poor picture of Islam. I'm sure this isn't the best source for theological study, and I'm not sure I want to go down the rabbit hole looking for more :^D Here's the points that stand out for me...

The basis for Islam is the Quran, and Muhammad's life.

Any ambiguity in the Quran can be rectified by seeing how Muhammad lived. Muhammad was perfect.

The Quran is the infallible word of Allah. Between that, and Muhammad's life, if you're doing something different, you're doing it wrong. There's no room for interpretation.

Later passages in the Quran always supersede earlier passages. The lovey dovey stuff was early in the Quran, and the war stuff was later...

Lying about Islam is ok, as long as your heart is pure. In other words, to protect yourself from harm, or to further Islam, you can say just about anything as long as you don't really believe it.

This is most dangerous point so far. How can you deal with someone if you can't be sure of the truth? Any discussion of intention has to go back to the Quran. The Quran will trump anything said by a human since it's the word of Allah, and humans have divine authorization to lie to further their goals.

I grew up muslim buddy ! If you have any questions , ask if you like
I really disagree with many core ideas of the religion , theres lots of hypocricy ! But some of stuff I totally agree with , which are basic core truths that resonate in every religion out there.