Frosted:

[Lobstersnuser]

Excellant Avatar

[AtreyuKun]

2. The number of threads congratulating Frosted on his sig/avatar.

Kudos!

[Lobstersnuser]

That's right! I forgot about the 3 legendary sailorette candidates. Subtle in their own way, like the poppy, lending one to.......reflect.

Well Done!

[Darwin]

Lobstersnuser you're past the welcoming stage on here but a redux is in order since I perceive by the above post that we've acquired a better than average prose hacker. Noice.

[Lobstersnuser]

I appreciate the kind welcome Darwin. Might I add, since joining the forum, I continue to be impressed by the atmosphere that is Snuson. You, and your ilk should be commended. I have read enough archival post material to realize the playing field has been covered and covered well by many genuinely intended folk.

Just watch the occasional feral parrot......

Good Show.

[Premium Parrots]

The feral parrots around here have spent a lot of effort answering questions and such in the past. I tend to let the other old guays around here deal with the newbies questions. Besides, if I spew out too much info most might think that I'm a reincarnation of Sagedill. Thats not a title I want. They only keep me around here for entertainment purposes now.

carry on

[Darwin]

Thanks L. Sometimes the ilk around here can get pretty feral as well. Good on 'ya for exploring the archives before diving in because we are well and truly hip deep in coverage of all things concerning the evil leaf. Our miscreant ilk, our wags and scalawags, not excluding myself, tend to gravitate towards the "People and the World Around Us" threads where we can flex our metaphorical muscles and whack each other about our rhetorical heads. Hmmm. Just thought of a great nickname for the forum. The Snuffington Post.

[Frosted]

Remembrance provokes strong feelings for me. The millions that were slaughtered and the manner that they were, is appalling.

I've just finished a book 'The Forgotten Highlander' by Alastair Urquhart. It's a difficult book to get through and is so devastatingly inhuman that it is quite unbelievable. It is unfortunately true. I'd highly recommend it.

[Darwin]

Sorry, can't help posting this on the 11th day. Trite as it may be to some I can barely read it without misting up.



In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[Frosted]

The only problem I have with remembrance is when somebody describes the deaths as the 'ultimate sacrifice'. I have difficulty with that because it seems to imply that it was voluntary - that they did it for the greater good. Those boys had no choice.

@Darwin. The power of the two minute silence always gets me. Lest we forget.

[Darwin]

A relevant blog post of mine from three years ago:

http://oiukm32.blogspot.com/2008/11/flanders-tears.html

[Lobstersnuser]

The feral parrots around here have spent a lot of effort answering questions and such in the past. I tend to let the other old guays around here deal with the newbies questions. Besides, if I spew out too much info most might think that I'm a reincarnation of Sagedill. Thats not a title I want. They only keep me around here for entertainment purposes now.


carry on

Darn, I neglected to add that little smiley-faced emoticon to my comedic reference to you PP. I will edit my post. In all seriousness, the entertainment aspect is arguably the most important facet to a well-balanced, user-friendly forum..... You carry that torch well.

The only problem I have with remembrance is when somebody describes the deaths as the 'ultimate sacrifice'. I have difficulty with that because it seems to imply that it was voluntary - that they did it for the greater good. Those boys had no choice.

The veterans that I have been fortunate to interact with, all reluctantly conveyed enlisting, as a 'Chance to see the world' or 'A new adventure'. In that sense I guess it could be considered voluntary. However, I can't imagine climbing out of a trench to a hail of gunfire was a preferred choice.

Somewhere in their journey reality set in.

[Frosted]

The problem is the courage/stupidity of young men. There is no awareness of reality. I was the same but now that I'm 41 I can see the naivety of men at that age whereas they cannot.

If my son wished to follow in my footsteps and entrust, like I did his life to the Army, knowing what I know now I would beg him not to. The government will treat your life like a disposable diaper - and that's all it will ever be worth, and in the event of your death your parents will have lost the single most precious gift forever. I don't see anything heroic in that.

Conscription however is a completely different kettle of fish and should only be done when there is an immediate threat of invasion to your land (imo). Then, unfortunately it's time to fight.

[Darwin]

It's at least arguable that in the 'Nam a much smaller professional fighting force would have been much more effective. However the cultural/political forces that ultimately turned the country against the war would likely not have been any more tolerant than they turned out to be regarding conscription. Vietnam happened in what was essentially the post WWII-middle eastern troubles interregnum and the populace was disinclined to be as supportive as they might have been due to the unsatisfactory and ambiguous results of the Korean conflict. Add to that the fact that to the young men of 60s America it was a counter-cultural summertime and the livin' was easy. Add to that the geopolitical landscape which was grimly informed by the exigencies of nuclear confrontation and you get, well, what we got.

None of that is hindsight. All those factors were glaringly obvious at the time but the governing generation still had Munich fresh in their memories and were, at least to a large degree, still determined to confront aggression as opposed to shrinking from the challenge as happened in Europe in the late 30s. By the 1960s the public was no longer able to stomach the casualty levels of the Vietnam conflict even though the total in the Second Word War was eighteen times as great (and approximately 180 times a great as the current fracas. The public, although supportive at first, simply did not believe that Vietnam was even a tiny fraction as important as WWII in terms of sacrifice. Stopping the advance of communist dictatorships simply did not resonate strongly enough and Vietnam in particular did not seem critical enough to that goal to sustain public support for a long period.

All that rolled into one big confusing contradictory mess likely means that fully professional, and much more effective, fighting force might have made little difference. Nowadays of course the militaries of the west are far smarter and deadlier in tactical terms but are still ultimately hamstrung, as perhaps they've always been, by public relations concerns. In the lassitude of the post Vietnam era it took an event as cataclysmic as 9/11 to rear the country up onto its hind legs and loose the dogs of war. The modern militaries of the west have conducted themselves much better than could have been expected but the west's memories of confronting religious fanaticism had faded perilously and unfortunately the only ultimately effective way of dealing with that is the old "kill 'em all and let God sort it out" strategy. We in all our diversity drenched and intellectually "nuanced" approaches to the radical Islamist challenge will never countenance anything that over the top. Good thing we have a real professional, highly lethal, and quick learning fighting force that can confront this challenge where in fact it can be feasibly confronted by military means. The cultural will for that confrontation, miltary or otherwise, is the primary limiting factor now and that ain't going so well. It's rather scary to contemplate what will be regarded as blindingly obvious in fifty years.

[whalen]

The feral parrots around here have spent a lot of effort answering questions and such in the past. I tend to let the other old guays around here deal with the newbies questions. Besides, if I spew out too much info most might think that I'm a reincarnation of Sagedill. Thats not a title I want. They only keep me around here for entertainment purposes now.

carry on

Translation = Whatever....................