Man Aims For Squirrel, Shoots His Foot

[Jimbob11]

And I also know a vegan who is perfectly fine with hunting. They're a more diverse bunch than you might think.

[GoVegan]

OK so the assumption here is that you can't care about animals and humans at the same time. The process of raising meat takes a tremendous toll on the environment. It takes 8-11 lbs. of grain to make a 1 lb of meat as well as a lot of water and oil. Also, meat production is hard on our environment. It produces large quantities of greenhouse gases and waste. By switching to a plant based diet, you are eating in a way that will make more food available to the people of the world as well as making sure your impact to the environment is minimal. If you are really concerned about the people growing the food, you can try and buy organics as much as possible. This is no guarantee but in general people who raise organic produce try to pay their workers better and provide decent living conditions for them. This is especially true if your produce is from a small farm based in the USA. So yes, you don't have to pick one over the other, by going to a meatless diet you can help both animals and humans. As far as clothing production goes, it really has nothing to do with meat. If you can find a clothing manufacturer who treats their employees decently and sells their clothing for a reasonable price, please let us know about it. I know Lands End does try to a certain point but unfortunately, you only have control over so much. Even Carhart clothing is made in Mexico now.

As for selection, I am not sure what to say here. I tip the scales at 280 lbs and believe me, that is not from eating vegetables all day. When I go shopping, I usually see thousands of products without meat and maybe a few hundred products, at the most, with meat. The key for me is to just pick amongst the thousands of products without meat. I have been a vegetarian for may years and lack of variety has never been an issue. If anything, I would be much better if if I ate nothing but vegetables.

As for hunting, you can make a point that animals that are hunted in the wild at least have a much better life than those that are factory farmed. This is true especially with fish products. Factory farms are notorious breeding grounds for disease and these animals are basically confined to a short life in a living hell. My thinking is, why not just leave the wild animals alone and let them enjoy life? Also, there are a lot of amateur hunters out there that don't exactly use clean and efficient killing methods. Also, are there enough wild animals out there to support the human population that does eat meat on a regular basis? My main belief is that I shouldn't kill or harm something unless I have to. Having said that, I guess you can make a strong argument that is you must eat animals, at least try to eat animals that have been hunted or fished. At least those animals had a decent life before they were slaughtered.

Now there was an earlier comment on here about Cheetos. I have to admit that I occasionally break down and eat cheese. I do not like milk much but I do buy products sometimes that have milk in them. This is a valid point. I do what I can do but sometimes I screw up. I look at it like my tobacco habit. Sometimes I break down and have a smoke. Not often but it does happen. That does not mean that I need to trade in my snus for a carton of smokes. I just realize it is a temporary breakdown, enjoy it for a short while and go right back to snusing. I also recognize that not everyone can stop consuming meat or dairy. I do have respect for those that have at least tried to reduce their consumption of it even if it means 1 meatless meal a week. It all adds up. Fortunately, for me, the meat part is easy.

Jimbob - I know exactly what you are talking about. Some of my best friends are die hard, gun toting, conservatives. Yes, the arguments can be epic. I always figure that there are always really good people out there, even if they have a few bad habits.

[Crow]

[GoVegan]

Sometimes I pray for Danielans return!

[Crow]

Haha! I don't think TheJanitor cares that much for me either.

Legalizing drugs is stupid as hell. Weed included. I have kids, and legalization would send the message that drugs are OK. Medicinal use huh? Cocaine and Heroin have medicinal properties as well. Should it all just be sitting on the counter at Walgreens? More availability=more addicts. More addicts equals more crime, poverty and ruined lives. Genius.....

[GoVegan]

As far as working conditions, I would rather be a poorly paid person working on a vegetable farm than a poorly paid person working in a slaughterhouse. Buying meat does nothing to elevate the working class.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...hterhouse.html

[Slidingblues]

I don't hunt anymore.


But that's just because I prefer captive bred meat

[GoVegan]

I don't hunt anymore.


But that's just because I prefer captive bred meat

Like a cousin?

[Slidingblues]

Like a cousin?

If that came to mind for you that must be where your interest lie. That doesn't do a thing for me. Please don't apply your preferences to me.

[Dirty Hippy]

Hmmm, I hate to play devil's advocate, but I think I will here, GV I have been a hunter and fisherman my entire life if you can name it, I have probably shot it, Elk, deer, rabbit, squirrel, fox, coyote, bear and bobcat. I also skin and sell hundreds of raccoon pelts a year.

I personally have nothing against vegans or vegetarians, BUT hunting is necessary for healthier populations of wildlife. Ever heard of mange? Rabies? Coon Hound paralysis? Parvo? If populations of fox, coyote and raccoon are not kept under control, they will disease them selves out damn near to the point of extinction in certain area's, hunting keeps these populations at healthy levels so they don't disease out.

Ever seen a bear or raccoon destroy 10+ acres of corn? They can absolutely decimate corn fields and in return grain prices rise. People can give away their meat to unfortunate families also or give their money they get on their pelts to charity.

Hunting and fishing are also great sports that one can introduce to younger generations as it helps keep them away from the god damn computer and television teaching them necessary life skills. I notice that most people who are city slickers just do not understand wildlife biology at all. They believe that killing animals is evil, this makes me laugh A LOT.

And remember not all hunters are gun toting super conservatives, a lot of us are gun toting super liberals!

[GoVegan]

Honestly, I don't think nature needs humans hunting to keep things in check. If you like to hunt, that's your choice but their is nothing altruistic or beneficial about it other than you get some pleasure out of it. Nature has managed fine without us and would be better off if we weren't here at all.. Now, your argument might hold some validity if you want to apply it to animals that have been introduced into environments by man. Pigs and carp seem to really be taking a toll on the environment in general. I do suspect something eventually will keep those in check without our intervention but we can speed the process up a bit.

I have never hunted. I shot a bird once at felt like crap about it for a long time. It was in a tree and I thought to small and too far away to get hit with a .22. I used to fish. Mostly catch and release as I don't like the taste of fish. I eventually figured out it wasn't really the fishing I liked. It was just taking some time to relax near the water and being able to think for a while.

[lxskllr]

Honestly, I don't think nature needs humans hunting to keep things in check. If you like to hunt, that's your choice but their is nothing altruistic or beneficial about it other than you get some pleasure out of it. Nature has managed fine without us and would be better off if we weren't here at all.. Now, your argument might hold some validity if you want to apply it to animals that have been introduced into environments by man. Pigs and carp seem to really be taking a toll on the environment in general. I do suspect something eventually will keep those in check without our intervention but we can speed the process up a bit.

Starvation and disease is how nature takes care of overpopulation. It tries to do it with humans too, but we defy nature as much as possible. Now we could let nature, and automobiles take care of the issue, or people can hunt. When nature takes care of it, vultures and crows get to eat more, and if humans do it, they get to eat more. Either way, the animal dies. Hunting takes some of the stress of captive farms, which is where the real problems are. Not only are the animals treated poorly, they're terrible for the environment.

Now you could make the argument that we should be hunting humans, and I don't disagree, but everyone that does that gets locked up, or hunted themselves. We get around that by making up reasons for war, but wars aren't as big as they used to be. They aren't enough to decrease the population substantially.

[wa3zrm]

When I eat them deep fried, I like them with a beer breading

[GoVegan]

Starvation and disease is how nature takes care of overpopulation. It tries to do it with humans too, but we defy nature as much as possible. Now we could let nature, and automobiles take care of the issue, or people can hunt. When nature takes care of it, vultures and crows get to eat more, and if humans do it, they get to eat more. Either way, the animal dies. Hunting takes some of the stress of captive farms, which is where the real problems are. Not only are the animals treated poorly, they're terrible for the environment.

Now you could make the argument that we should be hunting humans, and I don't disagree, but everyone that does that gets locked up, or hunted themselves. We get around that by making up reasons for war, but wars aren't as big as they used to be. They aren't enough to decrease the population substantially.

I can't argue with that. Nature can be tough and hunting is far more humane to animals than factory farming by far. Having said that, I just prefer to leave the animals alone in peace and let them be.