Washington legalises same-sex marriage

[sgreger1]

Why do so many people think that the recognition of the love of 2 consenting adults is some kid of gateway drug that will open floodgates to polygamy and bestiality, or grown men marrying 7 year old boys? Words fail me.

Polygamy should not be illegal for the same reason gay marriage should not be illegal. You have two consenting adults entering into a contract or agreement. The government has no business stoping it on "moral" grounds.

As for bestiality or pedo's, neither of those apply because in both cases one of the two parties can not legally consent to the union. Apples and oranges.

[sgreger1]

Quick question for those who voted "no" on this poll. (If you wish to remain anonymous than no need to respond to this question)


Why do you oppose gay marriage? Do you actually feel being gay is wrong to the point where they should be denied rights, or are you more fo the thought that marriage means specifically a union between a man and a women (for religious or other reasons), and that gays should instead have domestic partnerships.


Most people who are against marriage (like the millions who voted against it in CA) seem to not have a problem with gays being domestic partners and having the same rights, it's just that they feel marriage means a certain thing and therefore the word shouldn't be hijacked. Is this your opinion?

I see the "name' thing as symantics, but I can at least see the validity of the point because I too dislike the idea of changing the meaning of words. HOWEVER, the idea of giving them the same rights as married couples but under the term domestic partnership wreaks of "seperate but equal" in my mind.


Also keep in mind that throughout history marriage was more of a business contract than anything. It was there for the purpose of merging estates, making sure the wealth stays within your "class", acquiring wealth via dowry etc. Which is why in many if not most cultures the parents had a big say in who you married, that way they could make sure you are staying within your class, bringing wealth to the family, securing your estate etc. It's wasn't really about love at all.

[Roo]

To anyone who believes that being gay is a "choice":

It then follows that you believe that you yourself made a "choice" to not be gay, and it then follows that you believe you had a "decision" to make in the first place... which then follows that you yourself were at one point not so sure what kind of genitals were best suited to satisfy your sexual desires... so how much sense does your theory make now? If you are a heterosexual male, are you saying that you had to consciously "decide" to not lust after man parts?

[sgreger1]

To anyone who believes that being gay is a "choice":

It then follows that you believe that you yourself made a "choice" to not be gay, and it then follows that you believe you had a "decision" to make in the first place... which then follows that you yourself were at one point not so sure what kind of genitals were best suited to satisfy your sexual desires... so how much sense does your theory make now? If you are a heterosexual male, are you saying that you had to consciously "decide" to not lust after man parts?

Great point. I think their line of thinking goes something like, "Gay is not a thing, straight is the only natural way God made people to be, and some choose to be deviants and "choose" to be gay". So it's sort of like there are no gay people, everyone is born straight, but some go against their heterosexual tendencies and choose to be gay. This is why they believe you can "pray away the gay" lololool.

[AtreyuKun]

What is wrong with Polygamy between consenting adults? or is that just weird and unnatural?

Bait and switch eh? We're not talking about polygamy. These people fighting for equality aren't asking for that.

[snusjus]

I applaud the state of Washington. Unfortunately, I live in an ass-backwards (no pun intended!) state; a bill to legalize gay marriage stands little chance of ever being taken seriously in Ohio. I can't wait to move out of here someday!

[sgreger1]

Bait and switch eh? We're not talking about polygamy. These people fighting for equality aren't asking for that.

Polygamists should have equality too, do you disagree?

[AtreyuKun]

Polygamists should have equality too, do you disagree?

On the contrary. All consenting adults deserve equality. But people who oppose gay rights always seem to love to make that leap to absurd ends like adults marrying children, people marrying animals, and men marrying buildings. They're just trying to sidestep the issue. Do you disagree?

[Los ßnus]

To anyone who believes that being gay is a "choice":

It then follows that you believe that you yourself made a "choice" to not be gay, and it then follows that you believe you had a "decision" to make in the first place... which then follows that you yourself were at one point not so sure what kind of genitals were best suited to satisfy your sexual desires... so how much sense does your theory make now? If you are a heterosexual male, are you saying that you had to consciously "decide" to not lust after man parts?

read into the bonobo chimpanzees. Arguably the most intelligent mammals aside from humans on the planet and what some would say our closest relatives in the ape world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#...ocial_behavior (granted, this is wikipedia so take it for what it is)

What is accepted as normal sexual behavior in their society would disgust most normal adults (even those with internet access!). We're talking messed up stuff like family orgies and worse. Sexual behavior (homosex included) is treated almost as a greeting. We shake hands, they engage in oral sex, etc. The chimps have no restrictions on age or gender with their sexual behavior. Talking about straight up chimp orgies.

Not making an argument for either side but I think people in general put too much emphasis on the "Nature" argument of sexuality. If most people took a look at what these chimps are doing in "Nature", they would probably gag.

[sgreger1]

On the contrary. All consenting adults deserve equality. But people who oppose gay rights always seem to love to make that leap to absurd ends like adults marrying children, people marrying animals, and men marrying buildings. They're just trying to sidestep the issue. Do you disagree?

No I absolutely agree. Which is why I pointed out that it's a non-argument. Two consenting adults may do whatever they please, and under no law shall pedophilia or bestiality ever be legal here because one of the two parties involved can not legally consent. A minor cannot consent, and a sheep cannot consent, therefore they could never enter into a contract with each other. Anyone who fears men marrying turtles or pedo's marrying 3 year old's should realize that we would have to literally repeal 200 years worth of contract law and court precedent in order to accomplish it, which I don't see happening any time soon.

[sgreger1]

read into the bonobo chimpanzees. Arguably the most intelligent mammals aside from humans on the planet and what some would say our closest relatives in the ape world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#...ocial_behavior (granted, this is wikipedia so take it for what it is)

What is accepted as normal sexual behavior in their society would disgust most normal adults (even those with internet access!). We're talking messed up stuff like family orgies and worse. Sexual behavior (homosex included) is treated almost as a greeting. We shake hands, they engage in oral sex, etc. The chimps have no restrictions on age or gender with their sexual behavior. Talking about straight up chimp orgies.

Not making an argument for either side but I think people in general put too much emphasis on the "Nature" argument of sexuality. If most people took a look at what these chimps are doing in "Nature", they would probably gag.

This is a great point, "natural" is pretty much doing whatever you as a species feels inclined to do.

[Premium Parrots]

No I absolutely agree. Which is why I pointed out that it's a non-argument. Two consenting adults may do whatever they please, and under no law shall pedophilia or bestiality ever be legal here because one of the two parties involved can not legally consent. A minor cannot consent, and a sheep cannot consent, therefore they could never enter into a contract with each other. Anyone who fears men marrying turtles or pedo's marrying 3 year old's should realize that we would have to literally repeal 200 years worth of contract law and court precedent in order to accomplish it, which I don't see happening any time soon.

I believe consent is implied when the critter in question is "on top". Surely Eric knows more about that.

[truthwolf1]

On the contrary. All consenting adults deserve equality. But people who oppose gay rights always seem to love to make that leap to absurd ends like adults marrying children, people marrying animals, and men marrying buildings. They're just trying to sidestep the issue. Do you disagree?

Actually, polygamist groups are seriously watching and waiting to see the outcome of gay marriage. It is the truth and not a absurd end. My point is that in the far future it could very likely be similar to the struggle of gay marriage.

Glad to see you are open to consenting adults.

[sgreger1]

I believe consent is implied when the critter in question is "on top". Surely Eric knows more about that.

PP:
"If this duck ain't quackin while I **** it, than that's consent enough for me cause it ain't sayin no."

[Los ßnus]

PP:
"If this duck ain't quackin while I **** it, than that's consent enough for me cause it ain't sayin no."

wait... I thought the quacking was consenting... I'm so confused.