LSD 'helps alcoholics to give up drinking'

[sgreger1]

Right now I am cooking peppercorn rubbed, Jack Daniels marinated tri-tip on my grill, but even it cannot compare to the absolute juiciness of the following statistics that completely take a fat sh|t all over your thesis here Precious:

Estimates of the prevalence of LSD-induced prolonged psychosis lasting over 48 hours have been made by surveying researchers and therapists who had administered LSD:

• Cohen (1960) estimated 0.8 per 1,000 volunteers (the single case among approximately 1250 study volunteers was the identical twin of a schizophrenic and he recovered within 5 days) and 1.8 per 1,000 psychiatric patients (7 cases among approximately 3850 patients, of which 2 cases were "preschizophrenic" or had previous hallucinatory experience, 1 case had unknown outcome, 1 case had incomplete recovery, and 5 cases recovered within up to 6 months).^[55]
• Malleson (1971) reported no cases of psychosis among experimental subjects (170 volunteers who received a total of 450 LSD sessions) and estimated 9 per 1,000 among psychiatric patients (37 cases among 4300 patients, of which 8 details are unknown, 10 appeared chronic, and 19 recovered completely within up to 3 months).^[25]

However, in neither survey study was it possible to compare the rate of lasting psychosis in these volunteers and patients receiving LSD with the rate of psychosis found in other groups of research volunteers or in other methods of psychiatric treatment (for example, those receiving placebo).

Cohen (1960) noted:^[55]

"The hallucinogenic experience is so striking that many subsequent disturbances may be attributed to it without further justification. The highly suggestible or hysterical individual would tend to focus on his LSD experience to explain subsequent illness. Patients have complained to Abramson that their LSD exposure produced migraine headaches and attacks of influenza up to a year later. One Chinese girl became paraplegic and ascribed that catastrophe to LSD. It so happened that these people were all in the control group and had received nothing but tap water."

LOLOOLOOLOOLOLOLOLOOL, so like 1 in a thousand people may have an adverse reaction, IF THEY ARE ALREADY IN THE PSYCHIATRIC WARD, and most of those will recover. Then, people claiming to have adverse effects TURNED OUT TO BE IN THE PLACEBO GROUP!

I wish there were some way for me to boil these facts down to a nice glaze so I could spread it all over my tritip, because they are that juicy and delicious...

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

I took a metric shit ton of that shit but and I'm still drinkin'

[precious007]

I took a metric shit ton of that shit but and I'm still drinkin'

here's the proof

:^)

[sgreger1]

I took a metric shit ton of that shit but and I'm still drinkin'

here's the proof

:^)

What is is you people don't understand? This is a specific dosage done as part of a therapy regiment. This study in no way says that taking some LSD will make you not want to drink. It says that in a controlled setting with a Dr/Psych, it has been scientifically proven to help people (through introspection) give up the need to drink.

So no, it is not proof precious. If you want proof, you may look at the scientific studies, which do not agree with your opinion.

[precious007]

What is is you people don't understand? This is a specific dosage done as part of a therapy regiment. This study in no way says that taking some LSD will make you not want to drink. It says that in a controlled setting with a Dr/Psych, it has been scientifically proven to help people (through introspection) give up the need to drink.

So no, it is not proof precious. If you want proof, you may look at the scientific studies, which do not agree with your opinion.

there are a lot of contradictions all over the place -

and when I see a contradiction I simply smell something cheesy.

I want to see a graph (Overall succesful results over lets say 10,000 alcoholics) then we can talk science.

I've been told that Xanax treats anxiety, a widely used drug that is prescribed in all sorts of anxiety disorders -

Believe me I've paid probably $15,000 for xanax over the years and it didn't cure my anxiety ...

I am the only one that can get past it and not really the drug -

just making a comparison of how "some" things are being advertised and there are no actual successful cases at all.

the power comes from within ourselves, I just cannot believe that an alcoholic that's been drinking for 30 years can be helped with LSD which is a hallucinogen - period.

I have several cases of alcoholics in my family - the moment they're sent home from the hospital they start drinking - they can make all sorts of things up just to drink another bottle of wine, and I too believe that alcohol is the strongest addiction there is -

In fact I am not even aware of an alcoholic that's been completely cured - (there might be though)

[Premium Parrots]

[precious007]

:^)

a can of snus would be more appropriate :^)

[shikitohno]

there are a lot of contradictions all over the place -

and when I see a contradiction I simply smell something cheesy.
I want to see a graph (Overall succesful results over lets say 10,000 alcoholics) then we can talk science

What the fµck are you on about? For the last time, will you actually read the damn study before you run your mouth off? Here, read it, you have your statistics. Some 536 individuals were part of the sample population. Of them, 59% of those in the LSD group saw an improvement with their ability to handle their alcohol abuse, compared to 38% in the placebo group.

I am the only one that can get past it and not really the drug -

No, you're the one most hung up on the drug, who is still refusing to read the damn study. Yes, there are contradictions all over the place, in your posts. #1) "Well, I never really tripped, but I'm an authority on the topic. If you haven't taken LSD or other hallucinogens, I don't know why you're even bothering to post."
#2 "I want to see graphs, I'm a man of science." The scientific method does not go, step one: graph some random crap. step two: now you're sciencing. There's statistics and citations for you to read over in the study, but you probably still haven't read it at all. You're arguing passed on personal bias, superstitions, and outright lies. You have been very careful about what you take from your sources and paste here, because you are well aware that they didn't support the conclusions you were drawing from them.
#3) There's your habit of citing sources, and hoping we won't actually bother to check up on them ourselves. Because, unfortunately for you, even most of your own sources disagree with the conclusions you're drawing from them

just making a comparison of how "some" things are being advertised and there are no actual successful cases at all.

Wow, could you possibly be more arrogant? You're seriously going to use "It doesn't work for me." as an argument that a drug doesn't work for anyone? Damn, you must be the ideal test subject that your anecdotal evidence is definitive like that. Oh, wait, that's right, anecdotal evidence means practically nothing. Silly me, you said you wanted to talk science earlier, so I assumed you had a vague understanding of it.

the power comes from within ourselves, I just cannot believe that an alcoholic that's been drinking for 30 years can be helped with LSD which is a hallucinogen - period.

I have several cases of alcoholics in my family - the moment they're sent home from the hospital they start drinking - they can make all sorts of things up just to drink another bottle of wine, and I too believe that alcohol is the strongest addiction there is -

In fact I am not even aware of an alcoholic that's been completely cured - (there might be though)

And here's where you really unwind. You admit that you, not based on anything but your gut instinct, don't believe it's possible in any way, regardless of what the numbers says. The study doesn't say these people had one dose of LSD, and never drank a drop again in their life. A dose of LSD in combination with therapy with professional psychologists helped 59% of the people in the LSD group to deal better with their alcohol abuse. This doesn't mean they necessarily stayed sober the rest of their lives. It simply means things got better for them. It's not as if they researchers are calling for all alcoholics to be immediately put on an LSD regimen around the world. They want more studies done so people can better understand how this works, and potentially improve upon it. Your knee-jerk reaction would condemn alcoholics to potentially not having a very beneficial treatment option available to them in the future, simply because you don't believe this.

For the last time, read the actual study! It's available online, for free. Understand their methodologies. Get over your personal biases on the drug. When you've done this, if you still would like to make a case against this treatment, make it using further peer-reviewed studies or otherwise verifiable sources of information, not Wikipedia. Please don't bother citing those flawed studies where they simply gave alcoholics high doses of LSD, and strapped them down to a bed as proof that it doesn't work. Those were intentionally misdesigned, used far too high a dose, and skipped out on the interaction with a therapist during the experiments completely.

As it stands, you're just being an ignorant and arrogant man, saying, "Guys, seriously, I know what I'm talking about, you should all just shut up." in a transparent attempt to try and leave us in awed silence of your intellect. Unfortunately for you, arguments from authority are weak even when you are an authority, and weaker still as in the present case, when you are nothing of the sort.

[Crow]

[sgreger1]

there are a lot of contradictions all over the place -

and when I see a contradiction I simply smell something cheesy.

Precious, with all due respect, the only contradiction going on here is that even the studies you posted don't support your position. What other contradictions are you referring to?

I want to see a graph (Overall succesful results over lets say 10,000 alcoholics) then we can talk science.

Actually, we are more than equipped to "talk science" by simply reading the various studies on the subject. Unfortunately complex scientific studies can't be boiled down into a simple line graph. The information is freely available though should you care to read it.

I've been told that Xanax treats anxiety, a widely used drug that is prescribed in all sorts of anxiety disorders -

It is effective for most people, but not all. For me it "works" great unless I take it often, then it makes things worse, so I stay away from it.

Believe me I've paid probably $15,000 for xanax over the years and it didn't cure my anxiety ...

Xanax does not claim to cure anxiety, you are misunderstanding it's purpose.

just making a comparison of how "some" things are being advertised and there are no actual successful cases at all.

You have made no such point, as there are many actual success cases for benzodiazepines such as xanax. It just didn't work on you, but the world is bigger than you.

the power comes from within ourselves, I just cannot believe that an alcoholic that's been drinking for 30 years can be helped with LSD which is a hallucinogen - period.

This is the most ironic one right here, because LSD works in exactly the way you describe above. LSD isn't a drug that will "cure" your alcoholism like xanax will "cure" your anxiety, no, it is a tool that can be used with psychotherapy to bring change from within, to allow you (through introspection) be able to take stock of your life and really find that inner clarity and motivation to be a force for change. Just because "you don't believe it" doesn't mean anything.

In fact I am not even aware of an alcoholic that's been completely cured - (there might be though)

Lots of alcoholics stop drinking and never drink again. Yes it is very very hard, but it certainly has happened many times.

[Slidingblues]

29 years sober.


And I like LSD and mushrooms....

Wish I could have been a part of the study back in the day....

[heppycat]

I have several cases of alcoholics in my family - the moment they're sent home from the hospital they start drinking - they can make all sorts of things up just to drink another bottle of wine, and I too believe that alcohol is the strongest addiction there is -

In fact I am not even aware of an alcoholic that's been completely cured - (there might be though)

It's nice that you personally know a few alcoholics, but unless you are an alcoholic yourself, you can make no such claim as to how easy, difficult, or even possible it is for an alcoholic to be cured (whatever that means) or what treatments may or may not work.

[heppycat]

"Among the three trials that reported maintained abstinence from alcohol use, there was a beneficial effect of LSD at the first reported follow-up and short-term follow-up, which was not statistically significant at medium-term follow-up." - removed references

Doesn't sound like any of the trials were very successful if no one even made it to the medium-term follow-up without drinking again.

[Snusdog]

Heppycat!!!!

Good to see ya bro!

How's it shaken down in chimneyville

[precious007]

It's nice that you personally know a few alcoholics, but unless you are an alcoholic yourself, you can make no such claim as to how easy, difficult, or even possible it is for an alcoholic to be cured (whatever that means) or what treatments may or may not work.

In fact I can -

to a certain extent because I am not a doctor but I do have quite some knowledge.

And regarding the people I know that are alcoholics, none of them have been cured, regardless of dozens of treatments they were given, hospitalization and so on - they always went back to drinking.