LSD 'helps alcoholics to give up drinking'

[heppycat]

In fact I can -

to a certain extent because I am not a doctor but I do have quite some knowledge.

Doctor or not, a head full of trivia on the mating habits of lichen does not in any way bestow the experiences of an alcoholic mind attempting to stop drinking.

The only valid comment you can make on this subject is "I observed an alcoholic drink" or "I observed an alcoholic not drink." You have no way whatsoever of knowing if said alcoholic even wanted to stop. You can only observe from the outside. Anything else is mere speculation. No form of treatment has any chance of success if the addict does not have a desire to quit.

[precious007]

Doctor or not, a head full of trivia on the mating habits of lichen does not in any way bestow the experiences of an alcoholic mind attempting to stop drinking.

The only valid comment you can make on this subject is "I observed an alcoholic drink" or "I observed an alcoholic not drink." You have no way whatsoever of knowing if said alcoholic even wanted to stop. You can only observe from the outside. Anything else is mere speculation. No form of treatment has any chance of success if the addict does not have a desire to quit.

then what gives a doctor the rights to treat an alcoholic? :^)

may .......I .......... ask?

does he or she have to have an alcoholic background of some sort?

[sgreger1]

In fact I can -

to a certain extent because I am not a doctor but I do have quite some knowledge.

And regarding the people I know that are alcoholics, none of them have been cured, regardless of dozens of treatments they were given, hospitalization and so on - they always went back to drinking.

There is no 'cure', you have to decide you want to stop drinking and then follow up on that desire. It's very hard to do though once you're at a certain point. I feel really bad for people who are truly alcoholics, it's such a sad way to live life.

[precious007]

There is no 'cure', you have to decide you want to stop drinking and then follow up on that desire. It's very hard to do though once you're at a certain point. I feel really bad for people who are truly alcoholics, it's such a sad way to live life.

just like with any other drug

and then comes the therapy that should "somehow" make the road easier -

[heppycat]

then what gives a doctor the rights to treat an alcoholic? :^)

may .......I .......... ask?

does he or she have to have an alcoholic background of some sort?

That really is up to the person requesting treatment to judge a doctor's credentials. I'm sure any medical doctor is able to decide if say antabuse is contradicted or not for a specific patient. Or decide if an in-patient withdrawal treatment is necessary. Quitting drinking can quite literally kill you. Do speak with a doctor if you think you may have a problem with physical withdrawal symptoms.
I'm not aware of any other medical treatments. An alcoholic has to stop drinking himself. A doctor can't do it for them but can make sure your ass stays alive during the process.

I'm sure a medical doctor with personal experience would be a very good resource if one happens to be available. If not there are thousands of people that *do* have personal experience.

I can only speak of my own experiences. And I sure as hell would never ask you for advice on how to stop drinking.

Would you care to speculate as to why someone might seek advice from someone with no experience in the subject?

[heppycat]

Heppycat!!!!

Good to see ya bro!

How's it shaken down in chimneyville

Busy busy workin. Finally warm down here. We never really had a good freeze so all of the insects are coming out in full force. Especially the fleas. My cats never go outside but they've all magically got fleas now.

[sgreger1]

just like with any other drug

and then comes the therapy that should "somehow" make the road easier -

Yes, once the person has decided they want to stop drinking, there are various treatments available to aid them in that. Detox clinics, support groups, therapy, medication, and now LSD therapy. I like how you say "somehow" as though it's some fuzzy questionable concept, but things like detox and rehab facilities as well as therapy etc are known to be pretty affective, assuming that the person also does their part and wants to quit and will actively abstain from drinking alcohol. There is no "somehow", it's scientifically proven methods which have been known to work at a rate higher than that of the control group.

[enilder]

then what gives a doctor the rights to treat an alcoholic? :^)

may .......I .......... ask?

does he or she have to have an alcoholic background of some sort?

He has the right to treat him because the FDA and the hospital allows him or her to do so.

That does not mean he should.

That doctor is like you. He bases his opinions on "facts". You've read internet articles. You had family members that were alcoholics. He (the doctor) has read articles in medical journals. He may have conducted group studies. He probably interviewed alcoholics. You both assert you know what alcoholism is and how to treat it.

However, you both will not understand the true nature of alcoholism. Why? Because you have nothing to associate it with. You or the doctor have never experienced addiction. If I had experienced addiction to crack (an extreme, but valid example), I would be closer to understanding the true nature of alcoholism because I have knowledge from the experience of being addicted to crack. I can then associate that experience with alcoholism. Experiencing addiction is not the sole requirement. Recreational use of drugs, for example, allows one to understand how the given drug affects the mind or body. Again, it's not going to allow you to understand the true nature of alcohol addiction, but it will allow one to better understand it. Compare that to reading about it or even an alcoholic telling you about it. At that point, it's a matter of the method of knowledge transfer and interpretation. Are you really going to rely on what an alcoholic tells you? There are too many factors to consider in that equation. I offer you an analogy: how many people go on fad diets in order to lose weight but never succeed? They could conclude a given diet is going to work because they read it in a magazine or a personal trainer told them about it. Some may succeed in the short term, but they gain everything back or more so because they lack experience, let alone understanding of how the human body works. Through time, they may find a method to lose weight and keep it off, but are they going to understand the how or why? Additionally, everyone's body is not the same. They will not all respond in the same manner to a given diet. It also requires the person to commit to the change in lifestyle.

(If you've never tripped, how can you speak authoritatively on how it can or cannot be used to treat addiction to alcohol? "Because he says so! I read it on the inTARnets!" Yeah? Because he conducted a study? Do you even realize how many variables are influential in such a study?)

"Learning" for the human mind requires a foundation to formulate or comprehend new concepts. That foundation is provided by knowledge gained through experiences. You and the "doctor" lack this. Conducting group studies or living with alcoholics are not valid experiences; Most men live with women for decades, and they still don't understand them. Furthermore, not every woman is the same. One might come to fully understand his wife or girlfriend, but that understanding may not necessarily apply to the next woman. Though, it may provide insight into understanding some aspects of the next.

just like with any other drug

and then comes the therapy that should "somehow" make the road easier -

Depends on the drug and the person. Therapy doesn't work for some people. Extended use of some drugs makes it nearly impossible to do anything to "make the road easier." Take meth. You can only stop using it or move forward continuing to use it. Meth completely ****s your neural chemistry. You will never feel things the way you use to feel them. That's why users spiral out of control and end up in a very bad situation. The only way they can feel anything is while on the drug, and as time goes on, they require higher and higher doses to feel at the same level. Therapy isn't going to help in that situation. It requires the person to choose not using it and living with the consequences (both action and inaction, unfortunately).

All the Doctors can do is run their trials and studies and hope they find the best method to get someone off alcohol and keep them off. It still requires the person to commit to this method.

[sirloot]

Quitters never win !

[precious007]

Would you care to speculate as to why someone might seek advice from someone with no experience in the subject?

I didn't say that -

I was being sarcastic and trying to say that I might just have the same knowledge as a doctor has, lol

[Frankie Reloaded]

With this treatment I am really sorry I don´t drink...

[horus]

LSD can help with a hell of a lot of things. It's not a drug that makes you see shit, in fact I usually don't get much in the way of visuals from acid and when they're there it's just seeing walls ripple or wood-grains swim, stuff like that.

What acid and mushrooms do is allow you to completely forget every irrational hang-up from childhood and recreate yourself from the foundation. They give you a new lease on life. They're not drugs at all. Weed is a drug, LSD is a useful tool.

That's not to say everyone should run out and blow their mind. Psychedelics are more modular than hippy-types like to admit and they can definitely do harm too, especially if they're abused and fixated upon. But on the whole most people would probably be a lot happier if they ate two or three tabs one time in their life than if they didn't.

[precious007]

irrational hang-up from childhood and recreate yourself from the foundation

so basically I can reinvent myself with LSD

hmm, I should try some LSD, I might become rich and famous like Bill Gates ;-)

[Ansel]

so basically I can reinvent myself with LSD

hmm, I should try some LSD, I might become rich and famous like Bill Gates ;-)

haha me too... lol