Anyone into gardening/growing your own food?

[voodooman]

i've been doing hydroponics for years indoor, and outdoor. that looks like a nice system, but i would not have advised it for outdoor use. that said, you can definitely work with what you got. the main problem with a "pure" hydroponic system used outdoors is going to be bacteria and microorganisms in your resivour. it will get too hot and you will end up with a slime snot clogging your pumps and rotten roots. definitely want to paint everything that is black to white. this will keep temps down a bit, but you may still need a chiller.(pricey)

look into "drain to waste cocoponics". i've have great success with this type of system outdoors, and utter failure with more conventional methods. i believe your system could be adapted for use in this way.

for nutrients, i use general hydroponics three part flora system with few to no extra additives. and be aware that just about anything advertised as a hydroponic product will be horribly overpriced and often available at a hardware store for 50 cents. most nutrient additives are snake oil.

[sgreger1]

i've been doing hydroponics for years indoor, and outdoor. that looks like a nice system, but i would not have advised it for outdoor use. that said, you can definitely work with what you got. the main problem with a "pure" hydroponic system used outdoors is going to be bacteria and microorganisms in your resivour. it will get too hot and you will end up with a slime snot clogging your pumps and rotten roots. definitely want to paint everything that is black to white. this will keep temps down a bit, but you may still need a chiller.(pricey)

look into "drain to waste cocoponics". i've have great success with this type of system outdoors, and utter failure with more conventional methods. i believe your system could be adapted for use in this way.

for nutrients, i use general hydroponics three part flora system with few to no extra additives. and be aware that just about anything advertised as a hydroponic product will be horribly overpriced and often available at a hardware store for 50 cents. most nutrient additives are snake oil.

Can you help educate me on some of the shortcomings you encountered with your outdoor system? I know heat on the reservoir is the main issue, and for now I plan to use 2 lier bottles with ice in them to keep it around 65-70 degrees and will eventually buy a cooler. They are about $300 for the kind I would need, which is probably what I will end up using. I am also building a frame out of PVC pipe that I can throw up with a tarp in case it rains, but it doesn't rain here often. It doesn't get too hot or too cold either.

The guys at the store said I shouldn't have many problems doing it outdoor, and that it should work relatively similar to an indoor setup. I could in theory put it indoors in my garage but I would prefer not to take up a parking spot. Also I want to grow really tall tomato plants so not having ceilings will be nice.

I think I have the same nutrients as you, it has 3 nutrients, 2 used for growing it and one for blooming. They were about $24 per gallon and I got 3 gallons. The medium I am using is called hydroton, they are little clay balls pretty much.

Can you explain more about cocoponics? It seems people really like it but it seems that it requires using a different medium (coconut husks). Is there anything wrong with the hydroton? Here is what I am talking about.

Edit: I seem to be reading everywhere that he hydroton clay medium is better and provides more oxygen than the coco does, have you ever tried this medium before? If not, what were you using?

[precious007]

Great replies everyone. I already have the system so this is the one I will be going with, though I know there are other alternatives. It handles the feeding and the watering automatically essentially so that should make it easier.

So far I have tomatoes, cucumber, bell pepper, lettuce, jalapenos, cilantro & basil. The cilantro and basil I will be planting in the soil though.

@Precious: 1,000 pappers?!?! Damn that is awesome. I just love peppers of every variety, right now I am goign to start with some jalapenos. Were your peppers hard to grow? How long did it take from when you planted them to when you were able to harvest? Also, they look almost like multi-colored christmas lights lolol.


Those hanging pots are pretty cool too, i've seen those before. The problem is they are really for growing tomatoes and I am looking for something that will grow pretty much all of the vegetables we will need so it has to be able to do any kind of plant.

@squeezyjohn: Wow those bags sound like an awesome idea, I have never seen one of those here. Especially at only like $5 that's a great deal.

oh lol I love jalapenos ;-)

Especially the mexican pizza with jalapeno at Pizza Hut.

Well, I grew normal chili plants like the one in the picture I posted - It took about 6 - 7 months until I harvested all the crop-

I used to pick everyone that was fully red colored (lol yeah they look like Christmas Lights until they become all red) and I placed them in jars with vinegar -

I was so addicted to chili back then I ate them with anything lol ............ I Love spicy food though, anything if it's spicy

I think you can buy special seeds if you want to plant you own chili or just buy the plant at your local florist - I bought the baby plants and grew them.... I am not sure why the plants dried up though I believe they don't have that much of a long life .........

[voodooman]

Can you explain more about cocoponics? It seems people really like it but it seems that it requires using a different medium (coconut husks). Is there anything wrong with the hydroton? Here is what I am talking about.

Edit: I seem to be reading everywhere that he hydroton clay medium is better and provides more oxygen than the coco does, have you ever tried this medium before? If not, what were you using?

hydroton is the appropriate medium for your type of system. in an ebb and flow system, the roots are periodically submerged in nutrient solution, then the nutrients are drained back to the resivour. recycling the nutrient solution in this way can lead to contamination by microorganisms abundant outdoors. this can be addressed in various ways. cooling will help, and i would periodically add hydrogen peroxide. over time the plants will absorb nutrients and water from the solution. this will change it's chemical composition, and things like pH, dissolved solids, and electrical conductivity must be measured and compensated for with additional nutrients or buffers.

in drain to waste cocoponics, the nutrient solution is not recycled. coco fiber is used for it's high water retention. periodically the roots are flushed with nutrient solution until about 10% percent of the solution drains out from the pots. this solution is not recovered, but may be sampled for testing. in this way, the nutrient solution stays "cleaner", and much fewer adjustments to the solution are necessary, although the resivour must be refilled more often.

[sgreger1]

hydroton is the appropriate medium for your type of system. in an ebb and flow system, the roots are periodically submerged in nutrient solution, then the nutrients are drained back to the resivour. recycling the nutrient solution in this way can lead to contamination by microorganisms abundant outdoors. this can be addressed in various ways. cooling will help, and i would periodically add hydrogen peroxide. over time the plants will absorb nutrients and water from the solution. this will change it's chemical composition, and things like pH, dissolved solids, and electrical conductivity must be measured and compensated for with additional nutrients or buffers.

in drain to waste cocoponics, the nutrient solution is not recycled. coco fiber is used for it's high water retention. periodically the roots are flushed with nutrient solution until about 10% percent of the solution drains out from the pots. this solution is not recovered, but may be sampled for testing. in this way, the nutrient solution stays "cleaner", and much fewer adjustments to the solution are necessary, although the resivour must be refilled more often.

That sounds pretty interesting, I may have to give that a go next time around. I just got my PH/Temperature meter and TDS/PPM meter today, and got an air pump with 2 large airstones which I am going to throw in the 55 gal drum to aerate the water a little.

As far as temperature, that is what I am investigating right now. Everything is painted solid black, and where I live it doesn't ever get too hot. The bay area is usually more of a cooler environment than most of california. If things get too warm and I am not able to compensate by putting 2liters filled with ice in there, than I will have to get a cooler. It is $300 for the one I need at my local store. At night it doesn't get too cold, but if it does than I will go to a fish supply store and get a fish tank water heater to keep it between in the 60's at night time. Right now the plan is to only pump the water during the day. Everyone seems to agree on 3 times per day for 15 minute intervals so I will try that at first.


I am going to Lowes tomorrow to buy a bunch of PVP pipe. I am going to build a frame around the whole thing A) So that I can cover it with a tarp when it rains, and B) so that I can hang yo-yo's from the top to keep the tomato plants in check (which will also be on stakes). My plan is to grow the largest ****ing tomato plants I possibly can, and since I'm outdoors there are no high limitations. I will also look into a solution for getting the whole system raised off the ground. The system I have requires everything (plants, pump, 55gal drum) be level, so the platform would have to be large enough for all of them.

So I am very new to gardening and am not familiar with the seasons. If I planted them right now, or within this month, when could I expect to have actual tomatoes? It takes like 6 months just for one batch doesn't it sincei'm outdoors and can't mess with the lighting conditions? I know light is the real bottleneck in hydro, so ihope they get enough light in my yard. If not, since I already have an enclosure and PVP pipe frame built around it I could just buy some lights and supplement the outdoor lighting, or covr the whole thing in a tarp and rely on the lights only. Not trying to pay for a bunch of extra electricity though so that is last resort.

I think the biggest issue I will have is keeping the water the right temperature. I'm filling up the drum now and will monitor it at various intervals to see what kind of temperatures I am getting. Would buying a cooler help stop bacteria and shit from growing in there?

As far as bacteria, I don't know what else to do to combat it, I am going to refill the water every 2 weeks at least, and make sure the PH is checked daily, that the nutrient PPM is okay etc but I am not sure what all else I can do to stop bacteria.

Another question I had though is what the appropriate baseline PPM should be for the clean water? I am using ta p water, but my tap registers at around 450ppm. I have a britta that filters it down to about 200ppm but it works slowly. I have not looked into whether or not this is too high or no. If the water is too dirty from the tap, what do I do? Do I have to buy reverse osmosis water, like 55 gallons of it every 2 weeks? Would really rather not do that for sure, but I don't know what the appropriate PPM should be. Also, it's raining lightly here for the next week or so, can I use rainwater? I imagine it would be cleaner than tap, especially since there isn't much dust in our area. I have set up a bucket to collect some so I can test the PPM of the rain water relative to the tap water and we will see. I doubt I could fill up the drum here though, it really only sprinkles for the most part.

Another option for the medium is the STG (Sure to grow) medium, which is like pellow stuffing/foam that is shaped to fit in the bucket and has a small cube cut out where you can put your little cube with your babies in there and it fits in real snug. You don't have to clean those like you to the hydraton. I just got done washing those bitches and they will NOT get clean no matter how hard I try. ****ing clay. I will have to do some more later, just shaking the buckets around and sprayingwater into them (the buckets have holes in the bottom so it goes right through, and there's a drain in my back yard).

Once I got it set up i'll take pictures so you can see sort of my setup. I'll take them once I build the frame tomorrow (assuming it doesn't rain).

These are gonna be the most expensive tomatoes ever though at the end of the day haha. I should just go get my medical MJ card renewed and then expand my system another 12 pots and use those to grow pot. That way it would pay for itself since I can just sell it to the local dispensary. I could legally grow here for only another $100, but I don't know if my wife would be down with that, even though I don't smoke it. I have some experience with growing MJ and it is way more fun to raise than tomatoes, weed really takes in everything from it's environment, doing the nutrients right can have such a noticeable impact on it's development, and then you can clone it and mix strands and stuff which is only fun. Oh well, just salads for now.

[squeezyjohn]

When you plant stuff is really dependent on your growing zone. I have no knowledge of what it's like to grow in California but where I am we generally plant seeds indoors in March - put the plants outside in May (or in the greenhouse) when they look strong and all chance of frost is past. All being well, the plants then grow like nobody's business until you get the first red tomatoes appearing in late July/early August. The last couple of years I have been picking tomatoes through to October at least before the frosts kill the plants off. A good trick if the plants still have lots of green ones on in October is to pick the plants whole (complete with green tomatoes) and hang upside down indoors - the plants continue to ripen and give fruit through to Christmas then.

So I don't think it's 6 months - more like 4. And you can get up to 4 months of harvest if you're lucky.

Where we are - it's not bacteria that's the problem with tomatoes - it's blight. If your plants get too wet and are exposed to the spores (it only takes one person in the neighbourhood to grow tomatoes or potatoes and a wind in the right direction to devastate your crop) then you're doomed. It starts with black spots on the leaves or stalks and you can halt it by amputating the offending bits and burning them if you catch it early.

I have started growing tomatilloes alongside the tomatoes now - these vegetables make a wicked salsa and are far more hardy than tomatoes - they are completely resistant to blight and produce a mass of fruit.

[voodooman]

Sounds like you are on the right track. Use your tap water. It may not be ideal, but you're gonna use a lot of water. You can get blight resistant varieties of tomatoes. Might be good to try a couple varieties. Blossom end rot is another problem. Make sure they get enough calcium and magnesium to prevent that.

[sgreger1]

Sounds like you are on the right track. Use your tap water. It may not be ideal, but you're gonna use a lot of water. You can get blight resistant varieties of tomatoes. Might be good to try a couple varieties. Blossom end rot is another problem. Make sure they get enough calcium and magnesium to prevent that.

I am thinking of getting a water filtering system, but I think the money would be better spent on a chiller. I only have one se of tomatoe seeds for the medium sized intermediate ones. I will go buy one of each and try those out to see what woks best. Tomatillos would be great since I love me some Mexican food and salsa.

Anyways, I don't know what to do for bacteria other than keep the water cold and drain the resevoir weekly. Hopefully that works. This first season will be all practice anyways do I will have to wait and see. It has been 2 days and so far my seeds havnt shown any progress. I guess I need to wait another week. I have them in a plastic enclosure so the humidity builds up, hopefully they sprout soon.

I'm so excited though, I really hope I can make this work outdoors. Apparently no one online has done it outdoors so maybe that's a bad sign. I think with a little but of elbow grease I can make it work. My PVC frame with a tarp should fix most of my problems with rain etc. I will probably have to get that chiller during summer though.

[sgreger1]

So far it seems the water only gets down to the low 50's at night time. I have a glass of water that I test routinely and 54 is the lowest it's gotten, but that was at like midnight. I am sure it goes lower at like 2am. Is ~50 degrees too low you think for night time temps? I imagine the soil gets at least that cold and things seems to grow just fine in there.


And truthfully, why the hell does it matter how cold it gets, the plants are only watered during the day, about an hour after the sun rises and then 2 hours before it goes down. Why does it matter if it's too cold at night? Doesn't the cold help inhibit pathogen growth?

Also, if I am mixing nutrients, shoudl I account for the PPM in my tap? Like lets say I have 400ppm in my tap already after i've let the chlorine evaporate. Themanual says put 500ppm of nutrient (this is a fake number), should I then add nutrients until the ppm is 900? Since 400 of it was already in there?

Is a water filter worth investing in? It's just that I plan on switching the water out of the reservoir weekly since I am outdoors and prone to bacteria and fungus, so I need to find a way to consistently get clean water. They are kind of expensive though so not sure if it is worth it.

[sgreger1]

Okay so I spent all day making my little greenhouse out of PVC pipe, turned out pretty well. I'll post photos tomorrow. My initial idea was to just throw a tarp over this frame when it raise, but then found this 12ftx100ft painters plastic, so I can cover the whole structure in it and it's transparent so it allows light in. I may even experiment with leaving the whole thing covered in this since light goes through anyways, or maybe rolling up the sides like curtains during the day to allow for maximum sunlight.

I got 2 airstones in my resevoir to aerate the water and keep those nutes circulating. My seeds are slowly sprouting, I have about another week before I will be able to transplant anything. It seems only the lettuce and basil has started growing so far, it's only been 4 days so nothing else has sprouted up yet other than the lettuce and basil but they should come soon. In about 2 week from start I should be able to transplant my tomato plants etc. I am goignt o try and grow all of them at once, and if any of them die off that I will just replace them with more tomatoes.

Anyways, i'm pretty proud of my PVC frame I built, it covers the whole system including the pump and resevoir and with the plastic I will be able to keep it al covered with sunlight still shinning in. Do you think I should leave it on or should I keep the plastic off during the day to increase the amount of sunlight getting to the plants (even though it's transparent?). Been checking temps and everything and it seems I am well within the necessary ranges. I filled up the full reservoir today and will let it sit out and evaporate some of the chlorine. Then tomorrow I will get it's PH adjusted, as right now it's at an 8 I think. I noticed no one is really doing hydroponics outdoors online so I am going to videotape my whole thing front to back and put it on youtube if I am successful.

[voodooman]

sounds cool. interested to see how you do. outdoor hydro is somewhat rare, but it can be done. perhaps i'll post some pics if mine takes off this year.

[sgreger1]

sounds cool. interested to see how you do. outdoor hydro is somewhat rare, but it can be done. perhaps i'll post some pics if mine takes off this year.

Is there any particular reason why it's rare? Is there some major pitfall that I am unaware of and soon to find out? Lol I hope not. I mean i'm going to have it in an enclosure so no wind or rain will hit it, and if harmfull bacteria gets too crazy I can use hydrogen peroxide in the resevoir(though I want to keep the beneficial bacteria so won't do this unless there is a serious growth problem).

I mean the lighting outdoors has to be good enough to grow plants, even hydroponically. I am also changing the resevoir weekly so I shouldn't get too much buildup in the system that may gunk it up. I can't see what part of being outdoors would make it not work.

[sgreger1]

Also, I have cleaned the hydroton completely by spraying them with water in buckets in a bathtub until the water draining from the buckets is clear. Is this all I need to do? Some sites seem to make mention fo the need to soak them in Ph5 water overnight, but why? They are PH neutral aren' they?

Is there anything that needs to be done to the hydroton other than just washing it prior to use?

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

Watch out for snail/slugs and bugs. Get some Sluggo and sprinkle it around. Might not want to fully enclose the area. Good ventilation will help keep bugs in check.

[sgreger1]

Watch out for snail/slugs and bugs. Get some Sluggo and sprinkle it around. Might not want to fully enclose the area. Good ventilation will help keep bugs in check.

Yah it will be mostly covered but not sealed completely. I don't want it getting too hot in there or anything. That's a good idea re: sluggo. Sprinkle it all around the floor so they can't make it to my plants lol.