The lack of respect and the decline of today's society. (RANT)

[Snusdog]

Man I don't know how I missed all the fun

But going back and rereading it I have come to the resolute conclusion that snus on is full of geniuses

We know this because............. everyone has irrefutable evidence that everyone else is a dumb ass

Unfortunately...........not one of you rocket scientist have figured how a lowly soul like me can order LD in the USA or have come up with a working can solution for the nice folks at Gellivare................

My input on the thread would have gone something like this

I respectfully disagree with all those who think that respect is something that is earned. On its most basic and fundamental level respect is something that is given. Respect in this most basic sense is our response to the inherent value of others. In the south we say yes mam to a lady and yes sir to a gentleman regardless of whether we have ever met them.

If we begin with respect as something earned..............then the value of another person is reduced to their value to me............which ironically............subordinates others to the ego of the self...............which in turn is the very opposite of respect (deference of self to others)

It is no surprise that in a society that is grounded on the self (morality is self-choice not obligation................religion is personal belief......................and truth is opinion) that we find (a) a lack of respect and (b) the inability given our basic fundamental assumptions about self............to regain the notion of respect in any but a nostalgic way.

That said..............in a secondary sense respect can be lost and earned (but only after we have the notion of respect properly grounded)

A person who behave in a way unbecoming of his value (lies, steals, hurts others) will lose our respect.......but notice how the loss of respect must presuppose an initial and created (inherent if you would) respect to be lost.

Respect can be earned in terms of a specific aspect or area of life. A coach might have to earn the respect of his team................back to back losing seasons and he might lose that respect.

But again notice how this secondary earned respect still presupposes the initial and fundamental respect. ………..We may think the coach needs to be fired..........we may be vocal and passionate about it...........however, we are horrified when people begin to threaten the coach or harass his family (the man is a lousy coach.............but he is still a person and a dad).............and therefore deserves to be treated with decency

Also...............I would be careful about conflating morality and epistemology...........ie...........more education will yield morally better people....or in this case a more respectful society...........that was the mistake of the enlightenment...............and the enlightenment has died a disastrous death philosophically (think postmodernism)

Better educated families have fewer children............because they are economically motivated to do so............it is this same motivation that will pollute the streams to avoid the high cost of responsible disposal of industrial waste............it is also this same greed that will pay a worker the least amount they can......not what they are worth.....thus promoting the very squalor we were quick to look to these men and their education to prevent.

Finally, I offer to you an older view of intelligence.........one not based on the abstract concept of knowledge..........but on the ability to carry your field forward and to produce something of worth to others...........Aristotle would have called it craft...............

[whalen]

Whalen - your wife is my idol! What an awesome woman! HPH FTW!!!

True story, we had a lot of laughs with it at the customers expense, priceless. HPH is still in business BTW.

[whalen]

Man I don't know how I missed all the fun

But going back and rereading it I have come to the resolute conclusion that snus on is full of geniuses

We know this because............. everyone has irrefutable evidence that everyone else is a dumb ass

Unfortunately...........not one of you rocket scientist have figured how a lowly soul like me can order LD in the USA or have come up with a working can solution for the nice folks at Gellivare................

My input on the thread would have gone something like this

I respectfully disagree with all those who think that respect is something that is earned. On its most basic and fundamental level respect is something that is given. Respect in this most basic sense is our response to the inherent value of others. In the south we say yes mam to a lady and yes sir to a gentleman regardless of whether we have ever met them.

If we begin with respect as something earned..............then the value of another person is reduced to their value to me............which ironically............subordinates others to the ego of the self...............which in turn is the very opposite of respect (deference of self to others)

It is no surprise that in a society that is grounded on the self (morality is self-choice not obligation................religion is personal belief......................and truth is opinion) that we find (a) a lack of respect and (b) the inability given our basic fundamental assumptions about self............to regain the notion of respect in any but a nostalgic way.

That said..............in a secondary sense respect can be lost and earned (but only after we have the notion of respect properly grounded)

A person who behave in a way unbecoming of his value (lies, steals, hurts others) will lose our respect.......but notice how the loss of respect must presuppose an initial and created (inherent if you would) respect to be lost.

Respect can be earned in terms of a specific aspect or area of life. A coach might have to earn the respect of his team................back to back losing seasons and he might lose that respect.

But again notice how this secondary earned respect still presupposes the initial and fundamental respect. ………..We may think the coach needs to be fired..........we may be vocal and passionate about it...........however, we are horrified when people begin to threaten the coach or harass his family (the man is a lousy coach.............but he is still a person and a dad).............and therefore deserves to be treated with decency

Also...............I would be careful about conflating morality and epistemology...........ie...........more education will yield morally better people....or in this case a more respectful society...........that was the mistake of the enlightenment...............and the enlightenment has died a disastrous death philosophically (think postmodernism)

Better educated families have fewer children............because they are economically motivated to do so............it is this same motivation that will pollute the streams to avoid the high cost of responsible disposal of industrial waste............it is also this same greed that will pay a worker the least amount they can......not what they are worth.....thus promoting the very squalor we were quick to look to these men and their education to prevent.

Finally, I offer to you an older view of intelligence.........one not based on the abstract concept of knowledge..........but on the ability to carry your field forward and to produce something of worth to others...........Aristotle would have called it craft...............

Dog, your sober rants suck! I had to read all of that very carefully, and who the Phug has that kind of time nowadays. I am spending all my spare time watching the second season premier of Sherlock, again, and again. Stop making so much sense!

[Roo]

Dog, I couldn't agree more on a societal level. I treat everyone with respect whom I encounter in day to day life, and do not wait until it's earned. The context in which the "respect must be earned" statement was made, by me at least, was that of authoritarian government rule that Precious touted as the ideal circumstances under which to foster respect among the common people for authority. My government EARNS my respect, but day-to-day people I encounter on the street or in other arenas of life have it from the get-go, until they prove that their respect is for whatever reason undeserved.

[devilock76]

Dog, I couldn't agree more on a societal level. I treat everyone with respect whom I encounter in day to day life, and do not wait until it's earned. The context in which the "respect must be earned" statement was made, by me at least, was that of authoritarian government rule that Precious touted as the ideal circumstances under which to foster respect among the common people for authority. My government EARNS my respect, but day-to-day people I encounter on the street or in other arenas of life have it from the get-go, until they prove that their respect is for whatever reason undeserved.

It is like I replied when someone commented how polite I was to a law officer this weekend (the context was asking about evening road closures for some construction that was going on). Anyway as I said I am always polite to an officer, no matter the circumstances, until they are impolite. Same goes with respect, I assume an implied level of respect for ones personal space, privacy, beliefs, you know the things that would be just common courtesy, until of course they step over the line. This can be seen in my interactions with the dullard at large in this threads interactions. I tried to respond politely, they chose not to, I therefore deemed them not worth the effort of continued politeness.

It is a little bit of immature quid pro quo in this context, but this is the internet, not a dinner party...

Ken

[sgreger1]

Better educated families have fewer children............because they are economically motivated to do so............it is this same motivation that will pollute the streams to avoid the high cost of responsible disposal of industrial waste............it is also this same greed that will pay a worker the least amount they can......not what they are worth.....thus promoting the very squalor we were quick to look to these men and their education to prevent.

Education isn't a fix all by any means. And of course the reason why mor educated people have fewer kids is an economic decision. Educated people get jobs, therefore mommy can't stay home and daycare costs are such that it's not really economic to have 6 kids in daycare. Also they tend to do more than sit around and have babies, and/or they want to spend money on other things so they have less kids. We can all argue over whether this is good or not, but it's just the way it is. Same with polluters etc, knowledge is power, those with education and the will to use it for a certain motive will find crafty ways of accomplishing their goals. In some cases this means starting up a business to fill a niche, and in some cases this means running an oil company and making extra money by dumping all of your shit in the rivers of Sudan.

It's sort of the yin/yang of capitalism, the greed and monetary incentive gives rise to the best technology, the most economic growth, thes trongest economies, the greatest amount of wealth for the greatest amount of people, and it also leads to evil corporations and eventually to fascism once the industrialists start buying out the government. It's just the way it is and we havn't found anything better yet.

As for respect, always be nice to everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt, that is called courtesy. For me to RESPECT you though, it must be earned. I give everyone courtesy, even those I don't like, but I only respect those whom have earned it, if that makes any sense.

[Snusdog]

knowledge is power, those with education and the will to use it for a certain motive will find crafty ways of accomplishing their goals.

Exactly………and that was my point……………knowledge is a tool………..but character determines how it will be used

The enlightenment’s mistake was to say we can correct social ills (character) with education. In the end they simply replaced the old ills with new ones. We no longer die of small pox……….we die of drive bys……….we can communicate wirelessly………..and are the most impersonal detached society in the history of the planet.

My only point was that respect should be addressed first as a matter of deontics not epistemology

As for respect, always be nice to everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt, that is called courtesy. For me to RESPECT you though, it must be earned. I give everyone courtesy, even those I don't like, but I only respect those whom have earned it, if that makes any sense.

Same thought different words…………….in your linguistic world Respect must presuppose courtesy…………..or reduce value to………. value to me.


"………..desiring to rectify their hearts, they sought precision of language" Ta Hsio I.4

[Premium Parrots]

wheres erichill when you need him

or

[Snusdog]

wheres erichill when you need him

or

alright.........forget everything I said

just stop your bitching............ and stay on the damn sidewalks.........bunch of ingrates

[Frosted]

Man I don't know how I missed all the fun

But going back and rereading it I have come to the resolute conclusion that snus on is full of geniuses

We know this because............. everyone has irrefutable evidence that everyone else is a dumb ass

Unfortunately...........not one of you rocket scientist have figured how a lowly soul like me can order LD in the USA or have come up with a working can solution for the nice folks at Gellivare................

My input on the thread would have gone something like this

I respectfully disagree with all those who think that respect is something that is earned. On its most basic and fundamental level respect is something that is given. Respect in this most basic sense is our response to the inherent value of others. In the south we say yes mam to a lady and yes sir to a gentleman regardless of whether we have ever met them.

If we begin with respect as something earned..............then the value of another person is reduced to their value to me............which ironically............subordinates others to the ego of the self...............which in turn is the very opposite of respect (deference of self to others)

It is no surprise that in a society that is grounded on the self (morality is self-choice not obligation................religion is personal belief......................and truth is opinion) that we find (a) a lack of respect and (b) the inability given our basic fundamental assumptions about self............to regain the notion of respect in any but a nostalgic way.

That said..............in a secondary sense respect can be lost and earned (but only after we have the notion of respect properly grounded)

A person who behave in a way unbecoming of his value (lies, steals, hurts others) will lose our respect.......but notice how the loss of respect must presuppose an initial and created (inherent if you would) respect to be lost.

Respect can be earned in terms of a specific aspect or area of life. A coach might have to earn the respect of his team................back to back losing seasons and he might lose that respect.

But again notice how this secondary earned respect still presupposes the initial and fundamental respect. ………..We may think the coach needs to be fired..........we may be vocal and passionate about it...........however, we are horrified when people begin to threaten the coach or harass his family (the man is a lousy coach.............but he is still a person and a dad).............and therefore deserves to be treated with decency

Also...............I would be careful about conflating morality and epistemology...........ie...........more education will yield morally better people....or in this case a more respectful society...........that was the mistake of the enlightenment...............and the enlightenment has died a disastrous death philosophically (think postmodernism)

Better educated families have fewer children............because they are economically motivated to do so............it is this same motivation that will pollute the streams to avoid the high cost of responsible disposal of industrial waste............it is also this same greed that will pay a worker the least amount they can......not what they are worth.....thus promoting the very squalor we were quick to look to these men and their education to prevent.

Finally, I offer to you an older view of intelligence.........one not based on the abstract concept of knowledge..........but on the ability to carry your field forward and to produce something of worth to others...........Aristotle would have called it craft...............

The wife took a photo of me reading that.



That's for Whalen too.

[Premium Parrots]

lmao ExFrost


you can all thank me now for not quoting his post.....so we didn't have to see that again.

[whalen]

The wife took a photo of me reading that.



That's for Whalen too.

That worked like a charm, I am still trying to find that Grov portion that was in my mouth when i opened that! It's under there somewhere. I had a good hard belly laugh at that one! But Parrots comes to mind now!

Oh, allow me PP...............................!

[whalen]

Ah, the simple pleasures of growing older. And , when I lived in Arizona, in the summer, that was standard operating procedure. That and sitting on an occasional Popsicle . All that is missing from that picture now is the dog, and peanut butter.................

[dpete]

I respectfully disagree with all those who think that respect is something that is earned. On its most basic and fundamental level respect is something that is given. Respect in this most basic sense is our response to the inherent value of others. In the south we say yes mam to a lady and yes sir to a gentleman regardless of whether we have ever met them.

Dog, I couldn't have said it better. Many of us in the north say and do the same thing. Unfortunately not enough.

[Snusdog]

MY EYES.........................MY EYES


yall some messed up mofos...........sneaking up into Whalen's house like that..............while he's watching Vanna and the Wheel