Old Communists Here?

[truthwolf1]

My belief is that if the Communists did not take over large parts of Eastern Europe after WW2 then they possibly still could very well of been in a Communist system currently.

It was pretty much the slow protest of these countries for independence that eventually collapsed the entire system. Most of my relatives complained about life after WW2 but the one's who did join the party seemed to do okay. In conversations now with the older generation they all pretty much say that things were far better with the old system but not as good as pre ww2.

[Jan]

Yes... But now it is much better. There is 1 % of people at which money so many that they unable them to spend, and other 99 % which became slaves to the bankers, compelled to take on credit for study, training, treatment, exhausting itself in lifelong slavery. Only don't speak about freedom and democratic values... I hope you rather adult person and don't trust in fairy tales?

I don't think we are limited to these two, very extreme choices... between being ruled by communists or criminals, there are societies in this world that are going another way. I have good connections to and friends in Belgium, Germany... these people live in freedom and at the same time enjoy high standards of social security with GUARANTIED housing, free university education (North Rhine Westphalia, Germany) and affordable health care... and often forget to lock the door when they leave for work.

[Brukhanov]

My belief is that if the Communists did not take over large parts of Eastern Europe after WW2 then they possibly still could very well of been in a Communist system currently.

It was pretty much the slow protest of these countries for independence that eventually collapsed the entire system. Most of my relatives complained about life after WW2 but the one's who did join the party seemed to do okay. In conversations now with the older generation they all pretty much say that things were far better with the old system but not as good as pre ww2.

+1. Some republics shook the boat, as a result it drowned. China a striking example of that, than there could be Russia without some republics of the USSR

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

USSR was best cauntry in the warld and nothing nothing is even close to that country, I lived in Cuba , Netherlands, Russia,Ukraine, Armenia visited Many other country's I never seen country so close to total success in terms of public well being, your doter and sister could walk around at night and no one could touch them , what we have today??? Criminal capitalism ?? Or Criminal Bankism, ??? When we talk about Stalin and the that time please do not forget what time was it ?
In 1975 USSR have been by education first , it was family standards and not gay parades , well I do not say it is wrong... Or maybe I say??

[Brukhanov]

I don't think we are limited to these two, very extreme choices... between being ruled by communists or criminals, there are societies in this world that are going another way. I have good connections to and friends in Belgium, Germany... these people live in freedom and at the same time enjoy high standards of social security with GUARANTIED housing, free university education (North Rhine Westphalia, Germany) and affordable health care... and often forget to lock the door when they leave for work.

I was on business trip in Germany last year. The picture depresses. There are Germans who work and there is a lot of parasites (immigrants and тд) which live on grants and at the expense of radical Germans. Excellent social system. It is good only for parasites that too a distortion. Actually it is possible to discuss much and much....

[Brukhanov]

USSR was best cauntry in the warld and nothing nothing is even close to that country, I lived in Cuba , Netherlands, Russia,Ukraine, Armenia visited Many other country's I never seen country so close to total success in terms of public well being, your doter and sister could walk around at night and no one could touch them , what we have today??? Criminal capitalism ?? Or Criminal Bankism, ??? When we talk about Stalin and the that time please do not forget what time was it ?
In 1975 USSR have been by education first , it was family standards and not gay parades , well I do not say it is wrong... Or maybe I say??

+++++++11111 !!!!!

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

So... i'm born in USSR. And yes,I loved that country. In it there was no unemployment, magnificent social security. The housing is free, medicine free of charge, school and institute free of charge. When the Iron Curtain failed, I visited Europe. Looked at democratic values and every year I am more and more convinced that communists were right. In Russia at the majority at the word "democracy" the nervous tic begins. To me was in the USSR much better!

+1 ^^^

[Brukhanov]

And yes... Time here mentioned about gays. Russian in the majority can't understand, and what rights they want and to go why a system on streets with flags?? =))))

[Darwin]

Western style capitalism, under threat for sure, precisely illustrates the old maxim that it is the worst economic system possible, except for all the others. However although capitalism is an extremely efficient method of resource allocation it really has little to do with how a society structures its moral priorities. It is rather severly ironic that the closer a country comes to pure socialism the more it must rely on a robust private economic sphere to underpin a communal redistribution of society's assets. It is a true paradox, and a so far intractable one.

What is obvious, now, is that the public's tolerance of the economic stagnation of the Soviet model ultimately had a time limit. So it changed but much chaos has ensued as the societies of the Soviet bloc attempted to telescope over two centuries of economic development into only a couple of decades. Sometimes it looks as if Russia has gone from a drab near serfdom to the Robber Baron stage of capitalism in one jump. Centuries of top-down authoritarianism are extremely hard for a society to overcome it seems and the need and inclination of a society to experiment, take risks, and think more for itself is extraordinarily crucial but enormously difficult. Only time will help but that is cold comfort to those cast adrift from the supposed safety of the succoring arms of the state into the tricky and sometimes "unfair" exigencies of a market economy. It must be said though that whatever nostagia any former Soviet citizen might have for the good old days would sour very quickly if serious attempts to turn back the economic clock were to occur. What an unholy mess that would be.

[Jan]

I was on business trip in Germany last year. The picture depresses. There are Germans who work and there is a lot of parasites (immigrants and тд) which live on grants and at the expense of radical Germans. Excellent social system. It is good only for parasites that too a distortion. Actually it is possible to discuss much and much....

social parasites you mean... yes.. there are some I know personally... none of them is immigrant actually, they get something like 360 euros every month on top of housing expenses, health bills, etc... the system is very generous... when you do say a simple job (which may be hard physical labor), what you often get after taxes does not exceed 1000 euros.... but you can choose not to work at all.. in this case you will be guaranties 40 m2 of housing for each family member and 360 euros a month in allowance... plus you don't run expenses you would otherwise incur if you worked - commuting, eating out, etc... work does not always pay for itself, does not make much sense...

Mr GN could probably tell us about Sweden... you know, Swedish social securuty system once was the most generous in the world.. until public buses stopped operating in Stockholm because half of the drivers were on (fake) medical leave... etc, etc.. no system is perfect !

[chainsnuser]

Now, that communism (a competitor, to use the capitalist terminology) is dead, capitalism is free to show it's ugly face again:

- slavery
- micro wages
- unemployment
- hunger/starvation (not yet in Germany, but in some other countries of our beautiful EU-dicatorship. Heil Barroso!)

Yeah, there's no competitor at the moment.

Well, I wasn't born under communsism but due to the proximity to the former Eastern Block we received a pretty good eduction about the communist theory and it's flaws. There was one thing that I always saw as a major flaw in Marx's theory, namely the assumption that the capitalist system sooner or later must fall due to it's shortcomings and "morph" into communism. I always thought that the chance is 50:50 at best and the change that capitalism turns into slavery is just as possible.

I once told that to a working colleague who was born in East Germany and very intellectual. She looked confused and just said: "after all, we're already living in a slaveholder-society!". She was right!

Cheers!

[wa3zrm]

I once had a Russian friend that I worked with daily. He seemed "normal" to me en re Western standards. One day, towards the end of his stay, he approached me and said, "Bob, I have been a life long member of the party... could you please take me to visit some of your churches?" Damn, it was like he dumped a bucket of cold water on me... it never entered my mind that he was a member of the Communist Party. Not once, during his entire visit he never discussed politics with me... then out of the clear blue, tells me that he's a party member. I'll always remember that moment when he told me he was a party member and wanted to visit some of our churches.

[Mdisch]

I did! What was it like..... life was rather grey, there were no colors... Bread was available but I remember queuing for hours to buy toilet paper... oh how lucky and proud we were of ourselves to obtain 50 rolls of it (there was a shortage of toilet paper in the country and people used communist newspapers at times and these gave their asses black color). I was too small to have any interest in politics but I remember the day Brezhnev died. We were given a day off at school, I was like 8 or 9 years old, watching funeral on tv and crying.... funny. Otherwise, it was a lovely time for a small kid, people stayed much closer to one another... but I would never want to go back and relive this time as adult...

This... is kind of hilarious.

[sgreger1]

jan...

That seems like it would have been a good money making opportunity. How hard can it be to make toilet paper? I'd think making toilet paper from old newspaper and stuff would be achievable using low tech techniques, and could e traded for other things.

you capitalist dog!

[sgreger1]

Yes... But now it is much better. There is 1 % of people at which money so many that they unable them to spend, and other 99 % which became slaves to the bankers, compelled to take on credit for study, training, treatment, exhausting itself in lifelong slavery. Only don't speak about freedom and democratic values... I hope you rather adult person and don't trust in fairy tales?

I would much sooner work for the top 1% of bankers or whatever voluntarily than to be focibly put to work by the state at the point of a gun.

America was never about benefiting everyone in the same sense communism does (i.e. spreading around the wealth), it was a place where capitalism was encouraged and this is what lead to our rapid growth over such a short time period. Capitalism, like any other system, is 50% bad 50% good, there's two sides to every coin. On one hand it becomes inevitable that the smarter more well connected people will eventually aggrigate all the money, and once they get it they will hold on to it and keep it within their little group of other rich people at the top. On the other hand, if there is a toilet paper shortage and you are a young entrepreneur looking to make an extra buck, than it is encouraged that you should find a cheap way of making toilet paper so that you can fill the demand for it. Because of this, everyone gets low price toilet paper in almost rediculous abundance. Because of competition, and because of free enterprise.

Communism has it's good points, as does capitalism, but I think the best system is one where the various attributes from socialism, communism, and capitalism are blended together properly. I.e. socialized police/fire/army, socialized healthcare and utilities, a more capitalist approach to business and enterprise, and maybe a little bit of communist "you either work or you starve" mentality. The problem in this country is that some work very little and get paid millions, others work very little and live off welfare and the government their whole lives. Neither of these groups are very productive to the country. The middle class is what drives the nation, those who work a decent days work for a decent month's salary. Capitalism favors those who are currently super rich and communism favors those who are currently super poor, but what we need is a system that benefits the backbone of the country; the middle class.