Poll: Will Obamacare Impact the November Election?

[wa3zrm]

Now that we have all been taxed for something that we were promised not to be taxed on, will this impact the 2012 presidential election?

[sgreger1]

You already pay for others medical care through increased premiums on your insurance. Every time an illegal or someone who can't afford it gets treatment, prices raise across the board to compensate. All this is doing is finally putting a check on that by making sure everyone is paying into it, and no longer allowing others to get free healthcare on my dime. Now we all pay into the much larger pool and recieve care, which is a fiscally superior idea to what we have currently, where people are able to freeload off the system and not have to pay for it.

Will this affect the election? Yes, it will give Obama even more of a landslide victory. The consevatives weren't going to vote for him anyways, so it doesn't really matter what they think, and they aren't that energized about Mitt Romney either so I expect a lower voter turnout on the republican side this year. Then again, this decision may fire up conservatives to come out and vote, so we'll have to wait and see.
On the left however, people across the nation are happy that now their children have healthcare (73% are covered now, and it will be 100% in the next 2 years), they will be happy that getting sick no longer means getting cut off by your insurance company, and they will be happy that seniors can finally benefit from cheaper drugs and additional cost savings.

All in all this is a better healthcare system than we have currently, and it will be cheaper than what we currently pay (as a nation). If you have insurance right now, just keep doing what you're doing, as nothing will change for you (you already meet the "must buy insurance" requirement). If you don't have insurance, now you can afford to, as there will be no more pre-existing conditions denials, there will be subsidies to assist in paying it if you are too poor etc etc. There is only a tax if you refuse to purchase health insurance.


Waz3rm. May I ask what it is that you don't like about this bill specifically? I understand the conservatives complains about this on an ideological level, and I even agree with most of them, but in terms of whether this will improve the lives of Americans or not, how can anyone be against an improvement of this magnitude?



Edit: On a personal note, I do think it's funny how the SCOTUS decision went. Essentailly they are saying that the government can't FORCE you to purchase a specific product, but it CAN levy a tax upon you if you do not purchase the product. This to me seems like a very bad power to give the government, but it was conservative Justice Roberts who allowed it to happen so we will see how the republicans feel about that.

[sgreger1]

I implore you all to read the actual majority opinion on this SCOTUS decision, as written by conservative justice Roberts. I think he states what has happened in as clear of English as is possible:

From majority opinion (Roberts)

Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clause would give Congress the same license to regulate what people do not do. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the prin- ciple that the Federal Government is a government of limited and enumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sus- tained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.”

...

Nor can the individual mandate be sustained under the Necessary and Proper Clause as an integral part of the Affordable Care Act’s other reforms.

...

The most straightforward reading of the individual mandate is that it commands individuals to purchase insurance. But, for the reasons explained, the Commerce Clause does not give Congress that power. It is therefore necessary to turn to the Government’s alternative argument: that the mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power to “lay and collect Taxes.” Art. I, §8, cl. 1. In pressing its taxing power argument, the Government asks the Court to view the mandate as imposing a tax on those who do not buy that product. Because “every reasonable construction must be resorted to, in order to save a statute from unconstitutionality,” Hooper v. California, 155 U. S. 648, 657, the question is whether it is “fairly possible” to interpret the mandate as imposing such a tax, Crowell v. Benson, 285 U. S. 22, 62. Pp. 31–32. 4. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Part III–C, concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power under the Taxing Clause. Pp. 33– 44.

...

The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.

[wa3zrm]

Waz3rm. May I ask what it is that you don't like about this bill specifically? I understand the conservatives complains about this on an ideological level, and I even agree with most of them, but in terms of whether this will improve the lives of Americans or not, how can anyone be against an improvement of this magnitude?

Edit: On a personal note, I do think it's funny how the SCOTUS decision went. Essentailly they are saying that the government can't FORCE you to purchase a specific product, but it CAN levy a tax upon you if you do not purchase the product. This to me seems like a very bad power to give the government, but it was conservative Justice Roberts who allowed it to happen so we will see how the republicans feel about that.

I'm much older than you (I think). Things in this country are getting worse... I'm amazed that an armed rebellion has not yet started. We are headed down the same path as Greece. It is only going to be a matter of time before social care programs need to be cut because we just can't afford them. And, look at the price of food and gasoline. It's not that prices are going up, the value of the American dollar is going down! Gold at over $1000 an ounce! We are living in very unstable times... and, I just don't agree with Obama's socialistic "spread the wealth around" philosophy. Look at what it did to Europe, now the EU. I'm just an old republican bastard that believes that the less taxes we pay are better for economic growth... smaller government is better for economic growth... and I see what socialism has done in other countries and I don't like it (JMO). But what the hell do I know?

[Crow]

I love how you worded the poll's options............. and I love paying taxes

[sgreger1]

I'm much older than you (I think). Things in this country are getting worse... I'm amazed that an armed rebellion has not yet started. We are headed down the same path as Greece. It is only going to be a matter of time before social care programs need to be cut because we just can't afford them. And, look at the price of food and gasoline. It's not that prices are going up, the value of the American dollar is going down! Gold at over $1000 an ounce! We are living in very unstable times... and, I just don't agree with Obama's socialistic "spread the wealth around" philosophy. Look at what it did to Europe, now the EU. I'm just an old republican bastard that believes that the less taxes we pay are better for economic growth... smaller government is better for economic growth... and I see what socialism has done in other countries and I don't like it (JMO). But what the hell do I know?

You are likely much older than me, and while I agree that the country isn't exactly flourishing right now, I don't agree with the rest of your points. You project that we may eb ehading towards a situation similar to europe of the EU, but in terms of healthcare they outperform us by every metric (education too, but that's another topic). So if we are at risk of finally having a decent health care system that is comparable to europe, than i will accept that fate. I understand social programs are costly, but not nearly as costly as our defense budget, which takes up almost 50% of our spending. The money needs to be moved away from things that don't benefit US citizens towards programs that do benefit the average american.

As far as Obama being a socialist, what are some things he has done that are so socialistic if I may ask? He seems like a fascist to me if anything.

[wa3zrm]

As far as Obama being a socialist, what are some things he has done that are so socialistic if I may ask? He seems like a fascist to me if anything.

You know, I hate to take part in these discussions... all they do is usually lead to arguments. That's why I like to post, sit back, and watch the reactions.

I realized early on that Obama was not good news for the country... I based it on two things:

1. His Joe the plumber comment, "I don't want to punish you for your success, but we need to spread the wealth so those below you can have your same success; and,"
2. Obama went to this nut's church for 20 years:

[sgreger1]

I know he went to a whacko church for 20 years, but I think most (all) politicians who are christian go to whacky churches so that doesn't surprise me. I don't see what that has to do with your stance on him being a socialist though.

As far as that one comment he made, yes he talks a lot of leftist talk, but I don't see him doing very many leftist things other than what he has done for the LGTB community. He has been aggressive on illegal immegration, he has cracked down hard on marijuana posession and the war on drugs in general, he has increased our military budget and the amount of military conflict we've seen (expanding the wars into yemen, Africa etc).

He has also presided over a period where corporations and the wealthy in general have made more money than ever, he appears to only be wanting to help the wealthy corporate class for the most part. I don't see much actual "redistributing the wealth" as the term socialist would imply. Many non-socialist countries have some version of single payer healthcare, so the healthcare bill alone nis not enough to call him a socialist. I am just curious what socialist policies he has actually undertaken. He bailed out big corps by loaning them money and buying a controlling interest in their stocks, and they paid the money back (and we may even see a profit). On top of that Obamacare will reduce the deficit and result in less healthcare expenditures over the coming years.

So I guess I just don't get what he has done that is very "socialist". He extended the bush tax cuts, extended the patriot act, increased drone strikes, he is the first president to execute an american citizen in a non-combat zone with no trial or due process etc, these aren't exactly socialist things in my opinion, which is why I was curious as to why you would label him as such.

And while it's nice to post stuff anf sit back, being part of the discussion helps too, that way we know where you are coming from.

[Crow]

No one wants to live with precious007

[wa3zrm]

And while it's nice to post stuff anf sit back, being part of the discussion helps too, that way we know where you are coming from.

I've lived through the dumbing down of America... which is still going on! When I was teaching at University, I had freshman that could not read! How the hell did they get out of high school? So... if some of my posts/comments seem snarky or cynical... well... I've been watching the collapse of our culture and society for many years... and believe you me, it's only gonna get worse!

[wa3zrm]

No one wants to live with precious007

Not true, PP has sexual fantasies about him!

[GoVegan]

The whole medical insurance thing is a joke. They can call it a tax, premium or hole in the arse, I will be thrilled if our government can find a way for me to get medical coverage for my family at a reasonable rate.