Ten killed in shooting at 'Dark Knight Rises' premiere: local radio

[Joe234]

Do they have this in Europe?

This Week in Portland Shootings

POSTED BY SARAH MIRK ON FRI, JUL 20, 2012 AT 12:23 PM


http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/...land-shootings

The shooting this morning in Colorado is absolutely horrifying. Also terrifying is that the death toll from the shooting is about half of the average gun-related deaths in the USevery day.

Since just last Thursday, July 12th, police have responded to six shootings in Portland. Two of those were fatal and one of the not-fatal incidents involved a police officer.

Here's what the week looks like:

Thursday: Reports of two guys shooting into a North Portland apartment complex. Another report of someone pulling into an apartment complex on 129th and Division and firing shots.

Saturday: A gang-related shooting in Cully, where a man reportedly fires at a house near NE 46th and Killingsworth.

Tuesday: An officer-involved-shooting, where a 17-year-old guy suspected of having a gun ran from a traffic stop on SE 148th Avenue. A police officer shot him with a less-lethal beanbag gun and another officer shot him with an actual gun—he was injured and taken into custody. No weapon was found on him, but two loaded guns were found in a yard nearby.

Wednesday: A 31-year-old man is shot and killed in the parking lot of a strip club on SE 99th and Stark.

Thursday: A 49-year-old man was shot and killed on 5800 block of NE 6th Avenue, allegedly shot by two men.

The point here is that gun violence is real and terrible, even here in statistically rather safe Portland. The police just announced that in response to this morning's theater shooting, they'll be doing extra patrols around movie theaters "to help people feel reassured about their personal safety." But we can't protect against the epidemic of gun deaths with a few extra police patrols—when are we ever going to be up for writing laws that keep guns out of the hands of people who use them to kill people?

[Roo]

Extreme is right on one count: It IS easier to massacre with AR-15s and shotguns and Glock 9's in this country because one can easily procure these weapons at local sporting goods stores. One does not have to assemble bombs from chemicals and wires and shit from Home Depot. You can't argue with what he is saying here, and it's important in a situation like this to appreciate everyone's point of view. The fact it, this mother****er got an AR-15 at a FISHING store and procured a 100-round drum magazine from some other legal source. My personal stance is that I enjoy shooting my friends' guns occasionally, in the woods, but do people need the right to purchase 100 round magazines?? If so, for what purpose? Should you also be able to purchase a ****ing frag bomb?

I really appreciate the argument that if guns were banned all out, only criminals, by definition, would have access to them. And access they would have. We already have several guns per capita in this country. They are not going anywhere anytime soon even if some crazy law was passed and the 2nd amendment revoked. SO what are we to do?

One thing we can't do is compare this country and the gun violence problem to the UK. That is absurd. The UK is a tiny, virtually borderless ISLAND where obtaining a gun is extremely difficult. America is a vast country with long borders and a rich cultural (and legal) appreciation of gun ownership, where most of us can travel less than 15 minutes to a STORE where we can legally obtain assault weapons. Even if tomorrow guns were outlawed, as others have said, only criminals would have access to the Hundred of Millions of guns already in possession here.

Just pointing a few things out lest we get into too serious a comparison between the USA and the UK with regard to gun control. It's a fruitless pursuit. We need to figure out where to go with what we already have, instead of touting our viewpoints on what's already there.

[truthwolf1]

[Bigblue1]

I should believe someone who gets their info from Alex Jones?

So you have no rebuttal? You don't even know if I still listen to alex jones. I made a thoughtful and correct post that containe dpoints to a certain comment you made. I made no personal attacks and never brought up your talking point God olberman. Just shows how weak your argument is and how weak you are in making your points. I will say nothing else to you because if I did I would feel like i was taking advantage of you.......

[Crow]

This tragic incident should not be politicised.

That's all I have to say regarding this matter.

[sgreger1]

The guy used guns because it was easier than explosives.

Because you lot already have guns amongst the civilian population, getting rid of them would be impossible. Guess you're stuck with it....and the massacres will continue.
You're happy with the status quo though.

As though people don't kill people or go on killing sprees in other countries? What about what happened in Norway? What about the fact that despite having more firearms than people in America we still don't have even close to the highest homicide rate, or even the highest gun related homicide rate? And also this joker (parden the pun) rigged up his house with chemical weapons and the fire dept still hasn't been able to get into his flat yet. Not example a gun crime there.

You were in the army Extreme, so I know you understand both how dangerous and lethal a firearm can be as well as how effective it is at STOPPING someone from doing whatever they are doing immediately, like for example a crime.

Anyways, enough studies have been done on the subject and we already know that armed areas are inherently safer than non-armed areas so I am not sure why we even debate it.

[sgreger1]

Let me explain something. Northern Ireland is a part of the UK right?
If people there had a right to bear arms the country would have descended into civil war. Thank f**k it did not.
If you fail to see this simple point you ARE retarded.
I say assault weapons because they can cause the most damage. You can start there and then with smaller arms

I honestly, genuinely think you're all nuts.

I was making a comment about his disdain for white people because in the distant past whites owned slaves in our country, so not sure why you replied to me

Anyways, this idea of legislating away things like civil wars etc is retarded, if things are ready to descend into a civil war than firearms will not make the difference. Guns are only another tool to wage conflict with, and before guns we had swords and crossbows, war never changes and this is no reason to ban guns any more than it is a reason to ban swords.

Please don't call me retarded, we can have different opinions on the subject based on our respective cultures without stooping down to that level, I think we are all friends here so lets not get into the personal attacks like we so often do. I simply believe that weapons can not be removed from society, namely American society, so it is worthless to even discuss the possibility. You think letting the government and the criminals have all the weapons is the best plan, I think otherwise, let's leave it at that.

[sgreger1]

When a few have complete power, tyranny is the result every single time.

It's funny that this is such radical thinking in today's day and age. Look at the EU, unelected people running the show. At least here we get soviet style elections where we get to choose between the two corporatist parties

Really though you are correct, we can't legislate away bad people, and these things are so rare that we would do better to ban cars or airplanes or bicycles than to ban firearms, because all of those things cause more death each year than a gun ever did.

[sgreger1]

Wa3zrm......your neighbor would not just get his full auto AK47 taken away from by police.

He would be getting 25 years in the slammer, if he did not have a class III tax stamp.

Retarded drunk, with a semi auto....

I can attest to what wazerm is saying indirectly, I've lived some places where firearms are taught to children at a young age and a 15 year old may be caught firing off an assault rifle on his property like it was a cap gun. It's just a culture thing, in CA that would never stand, but in PA, Alabama, and many other places this is just normal life. People don't fear firearms and are aware of how to use them properly. Half the pussies on this thread would like to ban axes as well since they can be so deadly if used in an aggressive nature towards someone else. Well guess what, i'm going camping in CA next weekend and we're bringing our axes and our AR-15's and neither the park rangers nor anyone else can do shit about it. I'm glad we still have some vague level of freedom left in this country and everyone isn't completely scared out of their liberties yet.

[sgreger1]

Nonsense. How are you going to take on a government that has nukes, drones and guided missiles?

How could you propose we take on the royal navy, or the queen herself? Such talk is madness, Europe has the largest naval force in the known world, we could never overthrow England! (Joe in the 1700's)

[sgreger1]

thanks for the label

I stereotyped them on their wearing powered wigs. I respect the
founding fathers. The point I was getting at is that they are not
infallible. Sound believe anything they wrote is sacred and ordained
by God.

They are hardly infallible. Hell, by today's standards they were all terrible people. I could care less about the founding fathers, though they were a product of their time like we all are. I merely note that the right to protect one's self is a human right, and does not even need inclusion into the bill of rights. I, as a human being, am entitled to protect myself, and any limit government puts on that in the name of "saving us from ourselves" is just tyranny wrapped in a warm legislative blanket meant to make the masses feel secure.

[sgreger1]

-


An excerpt from Piers Morgan Tonight

Interview with Constitutional Law Professor Lawrence Tribe

MORGAN: What happened in Colorado is a tragedy. But could stricter gun laws have prevented it? The debate that many people are having tonight across America.

Joining me now is Harvard Law's Lawrence Tribe. He's a professor of constitutional law there. Mr. Tribe, it's a debate that rages every single time there is a shooting of this nature. This is the worst shooting in terms of people who were hit by gunfire that America has ever seen.

Is this enough, now, to prompt stricter gun control? And would stricter gun control have made a difference in this case?

PROF. LAWRENCE TRIBE, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: First of all, I want to express my grief and my deep condolences for the victims. I think gun control is overdue. The Second Amendment does protect the rights of people to possess weapons for self-defense in the home. That's what the Supreme Court said.

But it certainly does not protect the right to buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the Internet or to buy four guns, including automatic and semiautomatic weapons, in a short period of time. There's no reason in the Constitution why we as a civilized society couldn't get our hands around a problem like that.

The reason is the National Rifle Association and all of the people who, frankly, make a living out of restricting the political possibility of gun control. We have to do something about it. I don't know how many killings, how much slaughters it's going to take before the nation wakes up to the need to address the problem.

I think we fool ourselves if we say better and stricter gun control would necessarily solve the problem. There are all kinds of things that we need to do. We may need to do things about the exits at movie theaters, so that if they are opened, there's an alarm that goes off if they are not immediately shut. We may need to do something about our educational system. We need to do something about the culture of violence.

But I think this is a time for the country to come together. And it's certainly not a time for us to divide over the question of whether we can impose reasonable controls on ammunition. I think everyone agrees that the Constitution permits that. It's simply our political system that has failed to act adequately.

MORGAN: Professor Tribe, very eloquently put. Thank you very much for joining me.

TRIBE: Thank you, Piers.

Yaaaawwwwn.

Here's some data from HARVARD, regarding gun crime:

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE? (Protip: No)

And it's certainly not a time for us to divide over the question of whether we can impose reasonable controls on ammunition. I think everyone agrees that the Constitution permits that

So you would truly give up freedom in order to maintain the illusion of safety? And the constitution does not agree with that. Which is why the supreme court has repeatedly ruled that this man is a whacko lunatic. They do not agree with his assertions.

Be wary, ctiziens, lest you give up freedom because 1 out of 300 million people did something stupid. Snus kills more people each year than this man, riding a bike to work causes more deaths as well. Do not allow the corporate masters of America take your freedom for such a small price. Do not be fooled.

[Joe234]

In 2003, there were 30,136 firearm-related deaths in the United States; 16,907 (56%) suicides, 11,920 (40%) homicides (including 347 deaths due to legal intervention/war), and 962 (3%) undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths.

CDC/National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports 1999-2003http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars

• The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.

• The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.

• The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children: 26 industrialized countries.
MMWR. 1997;46:101-105.

Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q. 1996;49:230-235

[Joe234]

Title: Homicide, Suicide, & Unintentional Firearm Fatality: Comparing the U.S. With Other High-Income Countries, 2003
Publication Date: June 2010
What does it say?
Firearm deaths in 23 populous high-income countries were compared for 2003, based on data from the international World Health Organization. Consistent with past research, the United States had far higher rates of firearm deaths compared with the combined rates of 22 other high-income countries.

The United States has more firearms per capita than the other countries, more handguns per capita, and has the most permissive gun control laws of all the countries.

Remarkably, among the 23 countries studied, 80% of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States; 86 % of women killed by firearms were U.S. women, and 87% of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by firearms were U.S. children.

U.S. homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries, despite similar non-lethal crime and violence rates (as reported in other studies). The firearm homicide rate in the U.S. was 19.5 times higher.

The researchers conclude that “Whatever our basic level of violence, the empirical evidence from ecological, case-control, and other studies indicate that readily accessible firearms - by making killing easy, efficient, and somewhat impersonal - increase the lethality of violence” (p. 5).

U.S. suicide rates overall were 30 percent lower than the other countries, but the U.S. firearm suicide rate was 5.8 times higher. The researchers concluded based on existing research on U.S. gun suicides, “…it is probable that the United States would have an even lower rate of suicide relative to these other countries if firearms were not so readily available.”

The U.S. unintentional firearm death rate was 5.2 times higher than that of the other high-income countries combined.

Other key statistics included:

• For 15-year olds to 24-year olds, firearm homicide rates in the United States were 42.7 times higher than in the other countries.
• For U.S. males, firearm homicide rates were 22.0 times higher, and for U.S. females, firearm homicide rates were 11.4 times higher.

How can I use it?
Use the results of this study to urge elected officials to enact common sense effective gun laws that will make it harder for dangerous people, including criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, and children, to gain access to guns. Requiring background checks for all gun sales, including those at gun shows, is an important first step, along with strengthening law enforcement's efforts to stop the illegal gun market.
Citation
Richardson, Erin G., and David Hemenway, “Homicide, Suicide, and Unintentional Firearm Fatality: Comparing the United States With Other High-Income Countries, 2003,” Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection, and Critical Care, published online ahead of print, June 2010
[1697]

[OregonNative]

You do realise that Mexico has very strict gun laws right? Look at all the "good" that those laws have brought to their nation. We don't need fewer guns in our society, we need more gun education. It does not matter which country you live in, if you want to get something badly enough, you will get it. When you make owning guns illegal, you limit the access to people who are using them to defend their family or themselves. Hell, look at that Japanese cult that was able to obtain the parts needed to build (and detonate) a nuclear weapon in Australia.

Two weeks after I turned 21 (minimum age), I applied for my concealed carry weapons permit. I carry my firearm responsibly, as do millions of others. When I am home, my gun is unloaded and put into a safe. I'm not a redneck, I'm a typical American who takes full advantage of his freedom to possess a firearm. I work a 9-5 job, I have a college education, so one cannot assume that only "rednecks" carry firearms. I think the majority of gun owners are good, hard working people. It is part of the American culture, and I'm sorry that some people abuse this freedom, but at least we have the freedom to carry a firearm in self defense.

A little bit of light reading for you.
http://www.humanevents.com/2009/01/2...e-life-savers/

Now, out of respect for those poor souls who lost their lives, I am done arguing this point. I think we have beaten this horse to death, and we need to take some time to show some respect for those who have fallen. If you'd like to continue this discussion, I'd be more than happy to chat via PM with you. Now as for the those who have died, RIP brothers & sisters. I pray for the dead, and their families during this difficult time.

RIP