3 killed in shooting near Texas A&M University

[texastorm]

I dont oppose others having a different viewpoint, but since I can argue for it both ways and only not banning things leaves me my freedom, I fundamentally have to choose not banning things... period. I mean that across the board to as I previously stated. I get why people want to ban guns, drugs, weapons etc. I get why people fear for their lives. But I have yet to walk the streets here in the USA one day and not feel safe. I have traveled this country extensively and I have yet to see someone shot in anger. I have yet to witness a murder by gun or otherwise. While I feel for the few that have lived through that most of us never will, and therefore instilling unreasonable fear is not the answer.

I stated in another thread that todays media makes it so children cannot play on the street on the block they live on, because now parents fear everything. That fear is irrational to me, my parents did not have that fear, I was never abducted and by god I was a cute 6 year old, I have pictures to prove it! Todays media plays shock to get better ratings to make more money from ads, not to better the world in any way.

If you fall for the hype, you too will get caught up in the needs of the few, and forget the needs of the many. You just cant predetermine what moron is going to go on a killing spree with a gun, or a knife, or by throwing rocks off a highway bridge at cars. Its going to happen. One day it may be me... it has to be better than being eaten slowly by a large bear. So I propose we ban bears, starting with teddy bears.

The logic of banning things simply eludes me, maybe one of you scholars can explain how banning anything will stop me from murdering if that is the path I choose? Instead of I am right and you are wrong, explain why you are right like I keep doing. I am open to discussion.

[Roo]

Question: For every gun murder, whether it be gang-related, drug-related, premeditated, knee-jerk, or random, do you think a fatality would have occurred regardless of access to a weapon which takes very little physical effort or even coherent thought to operate? Seattle has had an unusual amount of gun crime this year. Every morning from the bus tunnel to my office I walk past this little makeshift memorial to a 20-year old girl who was randomly gunned down after going to the bars around here on a Friday night; a couple months ago a dude was driving down MLK with his kids and his parents he had just picked up from the airport, and a bullet whizzed through his window and killed him -- because on the opposite street corner one guy called another guy a "bitch" and the "bitch" in this case decided to settle it by firing his weapon (and missing his target). Just last week a good friend was woken up at 4AM by a gunfight 1 block from his new house where his 10 month old baby sleeps. Also earlier this Spring some dude walked into a cafe near the University of Washington and gunned down a few people because he'd been kicked out of the cafe one day; he then drove downtown and car-jacked a woman in a parking lot by shooting her in the head.

My point is this: the guy who got called a bitch would have either punched the other guy, stabbed him maybe, or done nothing. Instead he had a gun in his pocket and was dumb enough to pull it out and fire it. The girl who got shot on the street corner was most likely just like the guy driving his family though town -- the unintended victim of a gun fight. Random people don't die from a badly-thrown punch to someone else's face. The weakling that walked into the cafe wouldn't have beat everyone up had he not had a gun, he would have done nothing. If you are going to tell me that everyone who guns someone down would have otherwise used an axe, a bomb, or some poison gas... I really think you are mistaken. Sure, sometimes it happens. Please don't use the OKC bombing or 9/11 as an example, because they are not good examples. Those people were trying to kill hundreds or thousands, in which case a gun is not your weapon of choice. But guns are real easy to use, and real easy to get. I honestly doubt that one of my best friends would be dead today had he not had a gun his possession on the day he killed himself. I can only say that because I knew him very well... sure, lots of people jump off bridges or swallow pills.

For what it's worth: I am not at all for banning guns. It won't work and won't happen in this country. I don't own any, but I have enjoyed shooting them in the woods on many occasions. Just trying to add something to the conversation, because I really don't buy the argument that every murder would happen regardless of access to guns.

[Premium Parrots]

Those several unintended victims of gun crime mentioned, as well as all unintended victims of gun crime, would still be alive if the criminal shooter had gone to the gun range and practiced a tad more and taken better aim. The guy that shot himself in the head with his own gun would have killled himself any way possible. I have, [correction-HAD] a friend that was paralized from the waist down and had limited use of his hands. Apparently he wanted to kill himself. One day he got in his wheelchair, rolled out to his garage, managed to toss a rope over the rafters somehow, crawled up on a table, put a noose around his neck and rolled himself off the table to hang himself. He had guns and ammo. Seems he wanted to go the way he wanted to. It would have been a snap to just load up and blow his own brains out. But he went thru alot of planning to die his preferred way.

I had another friend that wanted to die. He drank a quart of Drano. It took him 3 weeks of suffering to die. But he got the job done.

I know several people that have simply over medicated themselves to kill themselves.

I have a cousin that drove high speed into a concrete bridge pillar to kill himself.

I have another friend that wanted to die. He was a mechanic. He got all all his affairs in order then one day got all cleaned up, grabbed a chair out in his shop, sat down next to an acetylene tank with a hose and a mask. Put the mask on and fell asleep.

Of all the people that I know that wanted to kill themselves only one used a gun. That was my uncle. He was an avid hunter, very old, and was recently [at the time] diagnosed with cancer. He just didn't want to suffer thru all the treatments and still end up dead. Yea, he had easy access to a gun and that method was HIS choice.

Shall I continue.....I know lots of people that took their own lives but only one that did it with a gun.

Question: For every gun murder, whether it be gang-related, drug-related, premeditated, knee-jerk, or random, do you think a fatality would have occurred regardless of access to a weapon which takes very little physical effort or even coherent thought to operate? Seattle has had an unusual amount of gun crime this year. Every morning from the bus tunnel to my office I walk past this little makeshift memorial to a 20-year old girl who was randomly gunned down after going to the bars around here on a Friday night; a couple months ago a dude was driving down MLK with his kids and his parents he had just picked up from the airport, and a bullet whizzed through his window and killed him -- because on the opposite street corner one guy called another guy a "bitch" and the "bitch" in this case decided to settle it by firing his weapon (and missing his target). Just last week a good friend was woken up at 4AM by a gunfight 1 block from his new house where his 10 month old baby sleeps. Also earlier this Spring some dude walked into a cafe near the University of Washington and gunned down a few people because he'd been kicked out of the cafe one day; he then drove downtown and car-jacked a woman in a parking lot by shooting her in the head.

My point is this: the guy who got called a bitch would have either punched the other guy, stabbed him maybe, or done nothing. Instead he had a gun in his pocket and was dumb enough to pull it out and fire it. The girl who got shot on the street corner was most likely just like the guy driving his family though town -- the unintended victim of a gun fight. Random people don't die from a badly-thrown punch to someone else's face. The weakling that walked into the cafe wouldn't have beat everyone up had he not had a gun, he would have done nothing. If you are going to tell me that everyone who guns someone down would have otherwise used an axe, a bomb, or some poison gas... I really think you are mistaken. Sure, sometimes it happens. Please don't use the OKC bombing or 9/11 as an example, because they are not good examples. Those people were trying to kill hundreds or thousands, in which case a gun is not your weapon of choice. But guns are real easy to use, and real easy to get. I honestly doubt that one of my best friends would be dead today had he not had a gun his possession on the day he killed himself. I can only say that because I knew him very well... sure, lots of people jump off bridges or swallow pills.

For what it's worth: I am not at all for banning guns. It won't work and won't happen in this country. I don't own any, but I have enjoyed shooting them in the woods on many occasions. Just trying to add something to the conversation, because I really don't buy the argument that every murder would happen regardless of access to guns.

[whalen]

In the US, you will never put the Genie back in the bottle. It has been affirmed as a constitutional right. And yes we will have to forever live with the consequences of that right. This study of what is and what could be, is a flashpoint for very heartfelt arguments on both sides. I still feel much better being armed and defiant, than helpless and compliant.

[sgreger1]

Jesus Sgreger, I haven't read all your rambling in it's entirety because it's late but I'll check it out tomorrow. Looks like some seriously aggressive and gratuitous American chest-pounding there chief. Calling a bunch of friends on the forum with alternate worldviews/politics/experiences "weak pussies" and questioning their manhood and shit because they have different opinions about guns? Come on.

Fkn take a cold shower and cool down that throbbing gun-boner. There's a time and a place for both sides of every argument and that time and place is now, when people come together on common ground to have a discussion about it. You can't just be like YER A PUSSIE I'M AN AMERICAN / THREAD. Can you?

They are making blanket statements against all Americans calling us crazy and idiots as a society, sorry for defending myself. I know hating your country and loving Europe is the new black, and I have as many (if not more) problems with the US than anyone else here, but to see Europe over there trying to frame us as a bunch of uncivilized crazy people because we are allowed to own guns hits a special place in my soul that I just cannot take.

[Roo]

Yeah PP I didn't really want to make that about suicide. Shouldn't have mentioned it. I am just trying to argue against the point that has been made all over the place that the gun involved in a murder never has anything to do with the death of the victim, that they would have died regardless access to guns within a given society. In the UK when someone on the street corner gets called a bitch and wants to kill the mother****er who offended him, chances are he a) doesn't have a gun and b) isn't going to engage in hand-to-hand combat. Personally, I don't really care if people that stupid want to kill each other over shit like that, but when it becomes a problem is when bullets are flying across the streets on which I drive or the sidewalks on which I walk. Now.... having said that, I do not fear situations like that, but it is a reality. This city was pretty shaken up over the past few months when random innocent bystanders were getting mowed down by stray bullets.

[sgreger1]

Thanks Roo - but I think I can take it

I'm not so stupid as to think that someone on here would be so "passionate" about the right to own guns that they would go off on one. So "passionate" that they would respond to reasoned argument against their life-long held beliefs with a bunch of insults and bluster. The fact that it was sgreger makes me a bit sad.

When I joined this forum in 2007 it was based in Finland. It had a nice mix of nationalities with a good sprinkling of people from the US and it was a nice, civil place to discuss snus and other things. When it got Northernerized a few years back it became american - and it quickly became a place to get bullied, flamed and see silly clips from YouTube - and the serious chat about snus became harder and harder to find amongst the rubbish ... so I left for ages. I came back though, knowing what the place had become because there's not really any other place to talk about the tobacco related stuff. I generally only enter in to discussion about snus, tobacco and things unlikely to end in someone comparing me to Hitler. I should have known better than to get stuck in to this one.

I maintain what I said. I FEEL safer in a country where guns are regulated tightly and I'm pretty sure lots of people round me also feel the same and it reflects in how we act in the UK. In the UK you are 3.5 times less likely to get killed by someone by any methods than in the USA ... FACT! It's not about the odd case every now and then when 3 or 10 people are shot by a madman. The point is that living in a safer-feeling environment changes the way a nation thinks and acts on average.

I can take all the insults because this thread has certainly shown me that sgreger is not someone whose words I can respect reading as he is incapable of controlling what he writes. I hate to think of him frothing at the mouth at what I have written - it's quite a disturbing mental image.

I'll leave you with a little video of a song that I'm sure you can all agree with (that's for you too sgreger)

Cheers

Squeezy

When you and others come onto a public forum like this and decide to make blanket statements against a diverse country of over 300 million people, calling us crazy etc for our laws or liking of guns, it is offensive and you should expect to get some of the same kind of shit fired back in your direction.

You are correct, it is hard to look at facts and challenge your life long beliefs, which is why you are on here spouting nonsense without any fact to back it up. Overall murder rate has WAY less to do with guns than it does about things like culture and many other aspects of living in a country 5x as large as yours.

The most thorough analysis of the impact of gun control laws, by Kleck, covered 18 major types of gun control and every major type of violent crime or violence (including suicide), and found that gun laws generally had no significant effect on violent crime rates or suicide rates.^[33] Studies by Arthur Kellermann and Matthew Miller found that keeping a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of suicide. ^[34][35] It is well known that suicide is more common in rural areas of the United States where gun ownership is more common. In other countries, other methods of suicide are used at even higher rates than the U.S., so gun availability may affect the method used but not overall suicide rates.^[36][37]

Here is a study from Harvard where they take data from countries with and without gun control and compare them. (To save you some reading, gun control doesn't work)



Don't come here (or anywhere) insulting an entire culture and expect not to get some heat. Rational debate my ass, you are just sitting here calling everyone who owns guns crazy and saying you are afraid to visit our country because of it. No logic at all, especially since the facts don't back up your assertions.

[Roo]

sgreger can you quote Squeezyjohn's offending statements? He was actually exceedingly polite in expressing his viewpoint over multiple posts.

[whalen]

Jesus Sgreger, I haven't read all your rambling in it's entirety because it's late but I'll check it out tomorrow. Looks like some seriously aggressive and gratuitous American chest-pounding there chief. Calling a bunch of friends on the forum with alternate worldviews/politics/experiences "weak pussies" and questioning their manhood and shit because they have different opinions about guns? Come on.

Fkn take a cold shower and cool down that throbbing gun-boner. There's a time and a place for both sides of every argument and that time and place is now, when people come together on common ground to have a discussion about it. You can't just be like YER A PUSSIE I'M AN AMERICAN / THREAD. Can you?

Best Part yet guay's! Throbbing Gun Boner! Priceless!!!!!!!! I hope we all get through this thread ok! And, I think some of you are full of it, not sure which ones though! I thought Sgreger1 was gonna start blazing away for a second! And I hope all you europussies are not easily offended, I still kinda really like you guy's! I especially like your ability to make Sgreger1 start foaming at the keyboard!

[Crow]

[whalen]

But right after this we need to address the real problem of sharp sticks and pen knives too!

BTW, I used to be a raving gun nut, I gave up the raving, moved to the country, and live a quite life now, I do not rise to the bait about guns anymore, but it is a very effective way to get blood pumping in many, mix that with election year politics, endless talking heads grinding out shitstorm sausage every time there is a "tragedy", and some just go ballistic. Not making anything other than a observation there.

[whalen]

I had a roomate borrow a gun and blow his brains out in front of us many moons ago, I still blame him, not the gun. I also had a good friend take Chantix and suddenly jump off the Chesapeake bay bridge, shit happens.

[sgreger1]

I'd like to thank texastorm for continuing to argue in a polite and reasoned manner despite holding views opposite to mine.

I think we can probably all agree that a right to free speech and reasoned discussion without fear of repercussions and bullying is the first thing that needs protecting in any society, even an Internet forum!

And yet you would be all to eager to give up that right in exchange for the illusion of "feeling" safe, which is what you have been arguing all along regarding our right to own guns. The irony is so thick it is suffocating me.

[Skell18]

Y'all need to calm down, put some Cypress Hill on and pass the kouchie on the left hand side!

[Premium Parrots]

Best Part yet guay's! Throbbing Gun Boner! Priceless!!!!!!!! I hope we all get through this thread ok! And, I think some of you are full of it, not sure which ones though! I thought Sgreger1 was gonna start blazing away for a second! And I hope all you europussies are not easily offended, I still kinda really like you guy's! I especially like your ability to make Sgreger1 start foaming at the keyboard!

bingo. you win a free trip to chicagos south side.