3 killed in shooting near Texas A&M University

[squeezyjohn]

Thanks for the bottom line PP. Well it looks as if you're ****ed then!

Good luck! I shan't be visiting any time soon. You're all crazy (apart from when you all seem completely normal which is quite often here thank God)

[texastorm]

One final thing (and please bear in mind I am quite tired but very interested in our differences)



So should we un-ban murder? At one time here in the UK it was not technically illegal, many murders in today's eyes could have been legally justified under the law of the 1300s - but we progressed from that position. I agree that in nearly every situation that we should use our collective resources to find actual solutions rather than knee-jerk reactions which are always short-term in their nature.

I'd love a state somewhere to find a solution to the problems of society by accommodating everyone in the society such that they are all sufficiently educated and have a moral obligation and incentive to live their life by their own conscience rather than by state rules and control but you have to admit that it has NEVER happened. Anywhere. Ever.

True Anarchy is a non-existant Utopia not a reality.

Uhm murder isnt banned, if caught you have to pay a price designated by society. So it is penalized. You cant possess murder. Maybe one day they will ban thinking about it.

But now since you (hopefully)understand you cant ban it, how in the world do you think that you are going to control the method? ANd does making it happen with a rock or poison make it better in any way?


Edit to add: I am not opposed to penalties. I am opposed to trying to stop things that you just cant control, like people killing people. That will never stop until we all have a chip in our heads.... so about 20 years or so at this rate.

[Frosted]

You definately couldn't ban guns in the US. Not now.

It's actually every persons right to have a shotgun in the UK as long as it's stored in an armoury within the residence - but - I'm glad I don't have one. It's human nature - we're just apes with a thinly veiled sense of civilisation which is prone to breaking down quite quickly when something triggers our basic instincts. I know personally that if a gun was accessible within my house I might use it.

[Frosted]

....which brings to mind. There was somebody in my Regiment that left and started up his own security company. Nice house, nice car. He owned a shotgun.
One day, who knows why, he took that shotgun and shot his two daughters, his wife and then himself dead. Now that's abhorrent but it's down to accessibility.

[squeezyjohn]

But now since you (hopefully)understand you cant ban it, how in the world do you think that you are going to control the method? ANd does making it happen with a rock or poison make it better in any way?

Well by the same token - you can't ban drugs or snus then; only ban their legality. I would maintain that murder by rocks or poison or man-to-man fighting take a hell of a lot more planning and personal risk than a gun. And because of that the gun by it's very nature is a bigger danger to have lying around in copious amounts in the family home than rocks, knives or anything else not purpose built for killing animals (humans included). The decision to kill someone can be in the blink of an eye or in cold blood - and the gun allows both to be executed instantly whereas primitive methods take more effort. The dangerous feeling of power with a machine that can kill in a high percentage of use cannot be underestimated too.

Edit to add: I am not opposed to penalties. I am opposed to trying to stop things that you just cant control, like people killing people. That will never stop until we all have a chip in our heads.... so about 20 years or so at this rate.

Well there I completely agree with you. And I share your (probable) unease with the surveillance and chips in everything. To be honest with mobile phones we're almost there anyway. While part of me thinks "I have nothing to hide so I'm OK" the repercussions in society are likely to be dreadful because when you take a responsibility away from an individual they are more likely to deviate from the society and the responsibility for your own actions are a massively important thing for the good of society.

[Frosted]

Sorry, it's bringing back memories. I searched online to see if there was still any news on this and right enough.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-himself.html

[squeezyjohn]

....which brings to mind. There was somebody in my Regiment that left and started up his own security company. Nice house, nice car. He owned a shotgun.
One day, who knows why, he took that shotgun and shot his two daughters, his wife and then himself dead. Now that's abhorrent but it's down to accessibility.

Oh God no!

He wasn't that chap in the news about 5 years ago was he? Very similar if not. It's bad enough to see the reports - must be much worse to know the person involved.

Great to know you have learnt the lessons of your training rather than getting sucked in to the darker side of it.

[squeezyjohn]

We're cross-posting - but yes it's the same story.

I'm sorry man.

It kind of illustrates my point but in a horrible way.

[GoVegan]

Ok,

name one ban that has worked, then I will name at least five that have not. The only way you can consider that misleading is to claim that this might just be the ban that works. But the definition of insanity... etc.


People who argue for the partial and/or total ban of guns are simply kidding themselves into believing it will accomplish something that historically it has never accomplished. While it may slow down murder by gun, no one can say if it stops any murders. Maybe if we bring back beheadings we can instill some fear, but for goodness sake you cant even spank your children anymore, and since my daily work life involves dealing with crowds I can assure you most kids need a spanking.

Bring back spankings and we can talk.

Lets see... one ban that has worked. Ok Alex - what is the PACT Act for 1000. It may have not worked completely but it definitely made things suck more while raising taxes.

[sgreger1]

-


Another one for the NRA

3 killed in shooting near Texas A&M University


http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justice/texas-am-shooting/index.html

You're on of those idiots who wants to make drugs illegal because they kill people too aren't you? Go move to N Korea if you want a nanny state and absolute protection by government, we don't roll that way here Joe and your posts are upsetting me more and more.

PROTIP: There are over 300 MILLION people in America. People get shot, killed, stabbed, beat up etc every 5 minutes. It's like taking all of europe and posting everyday "TAKE THAT REPUBLICANS, ANOTHER PERSON GOT STABBED! #BANKNVIES". It's ****ing stupid.

Why are you so afraid of guns, were you raped by one as a child or something? I've never seen someone so scared like a small female child about something before. My three year old has more balls than you do Joe, you are a scared little pussy with nothing better to do than fear-monger. You have always been very against freedom & liberty and very pro-totalitarian state, but why harp on guns so much? Why not literally any other thing. How many people drown each year, let's ban swimming pools! How many people choke on food each year, let's ban restaurants!

I just don't understand how people like you hate freedom and rights so much. I mean even the NAZI's didn't think like you. You nutters who have this mindset that everyone should be sealed off from doing anything or possessing anything that could harm themselves with for their own good are just flat out crazy. You have no consistency in your logic and no arguments in your favor, only plain old rhetoric and bullshit propaganda.

[sgreger1]

I'm not going to get in to US politics ... but guns are very highly regulated here in the UK. It does not mean that illegally traded guns are not used by criminals here ... nor does it mean that the occasional fruit-loop who holds a licence and frequents the local gun club doesn't go on the rampage once in a blue moon ("oh, he just kept himself to himself" a neighbour will say on the news).

What it does mean is that it feels like there are far fewer gun related crimes going on than you have in the states. It also means I FEEL far safer here ... even if I am not less likely to get shot ... does that make sense? If a nation feels less threatened by guns then they act less threatened and are much less likely to do something regrettable in a fit of paranoia.

We have knives here - and we have knife crime. I tend to carry a knife capable of doing someone a lot of damage if used that way ... I keep it razor sharp and carry it for multiple innocent uses - but when I go to an area that I feel less safe then I tend to leave it at home or in a hotel because I think that if I have a weapon like that I could end up in a more dangerous situation if I had access to it.

And yet banning guns in the UK has done nothing to stop crime (the opposite in fact), the criminals have just changed their preferred weapon of choice. Like always, guns had NOTHING to do with it, and when guns are prevalent than there is less crime, but when guns are restricted there is more crime. Study after study has gone over and over this subject I cannot even believe we are still having this convo. Face it, UK got forced into giving up their rights yet again, and now you in fact advocate for the rights of us in the US to be taken as well, even though it has done NOTHING to stop crime in your country. Why would you take something from me that is guaranteed by the founding document of my country just so you can "feel" safer, even when you know you are not.

[sgreger1]

You're absoloutely right Squeezy. If you carry a knife and draw it, you need to damn well know how to use it - and actually use it. There's no use wafting it about hoping everybody will go away cause it doesn't work like that.
Like my analogy to me drawing a pistol in NI, I felt more threatened carrying a weapon.

Now, with all these people carrying guns in America and all these shootings, not one member of the public has been able to draw their weapon and stop the massacres. I mean, that was a big argument for having guns. Wasn't it?

Are you shitting me? These crimes all tend to happen in areas with strict gun control. The stricter the gun control, the higher the crime rate, as study after study has shown. In areas with loose gun control things like this simply don't happen, and instances of people defending themselves, their property, or the life of another are too numerous to even mention. Now sometimes someone just catches people off guard and goes crazy, there isn't always going to be someone there who has a weapon and is trained to use it. It's just how it goes.

So many people die because of thinking like yours it makes me sick. Hundreds of lives down the drain because of gun controll laws, while you worry about 3 people shot here or 10 people shot there, and they call it a "massacre". Try living in ****ing Los Angeles or the wrong part of any major city and you will see what a "massacre" looks like. Innocent men women and children killed every day, and only the criminals have weapons.

[sgreger1]

Precisely! Access to guns has never stopped the general public from stopping a determined deranged individual from randomly killing people if they also have a gun. Guns are instant - and they can kill/maim from distance and therefore can detach the user from having to face their victim in the eyes.

Don't get me wrong ... in a perfect world I'd love to have some sort of gun at home to get myself some rabbits and to kill the bloody pigeons that eat all my cabbages. I would view it as an inoffensive thing like my fishing rod really.

BUT - and it's a big butt (sorry!) - I just couldn't have one on the premises even if it were legal. I just haven't been brought up that way. If it came in to my hands when something like a burglary was going on while I was at home I would probably try to use it (I tend to get very indignant when thinking about theft) - and that would either end up with me dead or with a criminal record ...

I just can't see how the right to bear arms would help me as a proper upstanding member of the community in that situation. Talking about it in those terms is just posturing of the worst kind.

Oh my god it's like some kind of disease where people live in a fantasy world of their choosing and don't understand how anything works. You are correct in that it's hard (nay, impossible) to stop those one-off nutters who decide to do something like blow up a building or shoot up a movie theater, (hell, even a fully armed modern army can't stop people from planning attacks like this) because they often do it without warning and plan heavily in advance. Guns most likely aren't going to stop those people. But guns do on a daily basis save so many people from certain death, from home invasions, from criminals on the street trying to rape someone etc. We simply cannot allow the criminals to have a monopoly on the use of force and allow them to be the only ones with guns. It is dangerous and not how a modern society should operate. We are not fish living in a barrel waiting to be shot. What I think you in the UK dont understand is that here in the US, every ****ing high school kid in some lame gang has a gun, we simply cannot live in a society where we don't allow people to protect themselves.

To hear all of you Europeans on here crying about how much it would hurt your feelings and make you scared to have to protect yourself or your family in case of danger makes me sick and you should all be ashamed of how weak you all are. Are there no men left in Europe, are you all the stereotypical pussy lame-wristed sissies we have all heard about? I thought it was all propaganda but apparently that is actually how you lot all think over there. Like sheep ready for the slaughter. "I'd be scared t have a gun", "I'd be afraid to defend myself", "I'd be a target if I had a weapon". You people would die on the ****ing streets in any major city if you thought like that here. Talking about being afraid to use a knife to defend yourselves and shit? How on earth did the European empire rule half the world for centuries with that kind of logic?

This forum has made me really hate Europe I must say. The mindset of the people out there is so backwards that I cannot even fathom it. It's like people in Alabama, I just don't get where they are coming from it is so foreign to me. Please whatever you do, DO NOT interject yourself into our politics in any way as I am afraid that your lack of respect for personal rights or liberty may somehow spread to our country, which has already gone to shit and doesn't need to have one more thing taken from us. The level of anger threads like this gives me is almost unbearable. You just have no idea what you are talking about, you watch some sensationalist news story from halfway across the world and think you know what is best for a country of 350 million people.

Face it, we are a different culture than yours, and do not try to pretend like the UK is some crime free haven that was magically saved by banning guns.

[sgreger1]

Thanks for the bottom line PP. Well it looks as if you're ****ed then!

Good luck! I shan't be visiting any time soon. You're all crazy (apart from when you all seem completely normal which is quite often here thank God)

The problem is that other countries have an irrational phobia against guns and america because they think that it's the wild west out here with everyone shooting one another. Don't for a ****ing second think your streets are any cleaner than mine, guns or not. Crime happens and it is more about socio-economic realities than it is about guns. You people who want to take away the right to defend themselves as human beings are the crazy ones.

[GoVegan]

Wow- sgregor is really earning his 2% snuson store discount tonight.