Socialism - The Political Party We Need

[hokiehi82]

Helping someone get out of a hole isn't going to aggravate anyone other than the most hardline conservatives. However there are people on this earth who could care less if they ever get out of the hole and contribute. These are the people who are content to sit and piss their lives away at someone else's expense. It's a complicated issue with no easy answers, but there has to be a middle ground where we can help people who desperately need it, and motivate the freeloaders into getting off their asses. The only people we should ever help without questions are the children, the elderly, and the physically and mentally ill.

[Ainkor]

Helping someone get out of a hole isn't going to aggravate anyone other than the most hardline conservatives. However there are people on this earth who could care less if they ever get out of the hole and contribute. These are the people who are content to sit and piss their lives away at someone else's expense. It's a complicated issue with no easy answers, but there has to be a middle ground where we can help people who desperately need it, and motivate the freeloaders into getting off their asses. The only people we should ever help without questions are the children, the elderly, and the physically and mentally ill.

Word.

[Ainkor]

Great post Aiknor!

The revolutionary socialist in me would like to disagree

So all I can hope for is for education and self-betterment to become the next trend everyone wants to follow.

Sometimes I wish I could embrace my own revolutionary tendencies. Pain sucks, hurt sucks, suffering sucks. Unfortunately real life comes crashing down and I realize that instead of some sort of nirvana, real revolution is to teach people to build themselves up. Our high point in life may not be as high as others, but still a worthy pursuit.

[crullers]

What really disturbs me are the bootstrappers who, in their twisted minds, think that by denying aid for those less fortunate - regardless of circumstance or choice - really helps those in need. There will always be people who game the system, why punish those who truly need help? I think things are going the wrong way lately. It may not occur in our lifetimes but there will be another Bastille Day coming. Instead of the monarchy facing the guillotine it will be Wall Street executives and their ilk.

@Ephemeris:
"When a man is unable to work and feed his family for legitimate reasons, he is better off going to a church/charity/non-government funded handout in order to receive aid. A government that is big enough to feed you, school you, clothe you and house you is a government that we should endeavor to avoid."

Aren't we all the government? The government is supposed to be a representation of us. Not the church, not the Salvation Army, and not the ****ing millionaires. A community that is well fed, well educated, and well sheltered is a community that we should strive for.

[Crow]

Aren't we all the government? The government is supposed to be a representation of us. Not the church, not the Salvation Army, and not the ****ing millionaires. A community that is well fed, well educated, and well sheltered is a community that we should strive for.

Well put

[lxskllr]

Aren't we all the government? The government is supposed to be a representation of us. Not the church, not the Salvation Army, and not the ****ing millionaires. A community that is well fed, well educated, and well sheltered is a community that we should strive for.

Yup, that's what it's supposed to be. Is that how it works in Canada? I sure don't see it down here. Down here, I see corporations buying laws, and "leaders" that follow money. We don't have leaders anymore. Nobody has their own opinion. They have spreadsheets telling them what to to think so they can get (another)term in office. I also see politicians pissing on the Constitution under the newspeak guise of freedom and security, all the while chanting the freedom mantra around the world while subverting the governments of sovereign nations. We have a bunch of statists gathering power for their own benefit, and not representing the people, or the principles that made us the envy of the world. We're coasting on past glory, and the house of cards is ready to collapse.

I'm ready for real change, and I don't see that in Obama or Romney. Everybody wants their free shit, and they'll fsck over their neighbors to get it. Sometimes I wonder if I'm even American. I don't think I know what an American is anymore...

[crullers]

Yup, that's what it's supposed to be. Is that how it works in Canada?

Nope, our government is trying hard to emulate our big brother to the south. He who holds the dollars wins, right? I believe the OP had it right by lamenting free trade, it's strained both of our nations economically.

Canada is not a utopia and I really cringe when I see Canadians bash our American brothers. I miss the days when I didn't need a passport to travel there.

As I stated before, I am waiting to see how your election turns out. Either way, I am quite pissed up and wish you all the best.

[stubby2]

Nope, our government is trying hard to emulate our big brother to the south. He who holds the dollars wins, right? I believe the OP had it right by lamenting free trade, it's strained both of our nations economically.

Canada is not a utopia and I really cringe when I see Canadians bash our American brothers. I miss the days when I didn't need a passport to travel there.

As I stated before, I am waiting to see how your election turns out. Either way, I am quite pissed up and wish you all the best.

I grew up in a small town in north eastern WI. The major employer was Tecumseh engines that built small engines for lawnmowers, chain saws , etc. I worked there on two separate occasions in the 70's. Hard dirty factory work, but good wages that someone could actual raise a family on.

About 6 or so years ago they moved to Mexico and are now paying Mexicans about 1 or 2 dollars an hour. They where still making money when they where in the US, but the bean counters saw gold south of the border. Going back to my home town now-a-days is not a happy experience. At one time Tecumseh employed two thousand people. It has devastated the town and surrounding area. That's what free trade has done for us. The same story is repeated over and over in the US. We sold our soul so a few fat cats can get even fatter. You can work hard all your life and in the end there's a good chance you'll just get screwed.

It's just a race to the bottom and the democrats are little better then the republicans. The gap between the rich and everyone else just gets bigger and bigger. There certainly is a redistribution of wealth, but it's from the middle and lower class to the top.

In the past we regulated and protected US industry by tariffs. It worked. Companies stayed in the US because there was no advantage to moving. Companies still made money, employes made a livable wage, and unemployment rates for the most part where low. If someone wanted a job it was there. Not so today. Outside of professionals all that's really out there are service jobs with lousy wages, no benefits, and no future.

Such is life in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[Ephemeris]

Aren't we all the government?

Not in the US.

The government is supposed to be a representation of us. Not the church, not the Salvation Army, and not the ****ing millionaires. A community that is well fed, well educated, and well sheltered is a community that we should strive for.

Well said! I agree 100%. But I don't really know who my government represents. It isn't me, or anyone I know. Maybe lobbyists? Special interest groups? "Super PACS"? Organized crime? Partisan politicking millionaires? Sadists? The lowest common denominator? The non-working man who non-works because he's a parasite? I think the government represents these people very well.

The government should reflect the wants and needs of every American. How can this work on a Federal level? Are you telling me that the guy working at the gas station and Lindsay Lohan both want and need the same thing?

The way it was in the bad old days was that if you didn't like your town, you moved out of the county. Then your state. That's not the way it is now that even state representatives have no binding reason to vote along the way their fellow statesmen demand. If 99% of the voters in my state choose to legalize marijuana, our "representatives" will probably vote against it. It's a broken system.

We ran a quote from Type O Negative's Peter Steele in our fourth issue that kind of sums up my attitude (even though Pete was probably pretty stoned when he said it and didn't get the terminology right):

“True socialism has nothing to do with redistributing wealth. Real, hardcore socialism means
the people have absolute control over the government and no man is better or lesser than the
next man. Nothing gets done without the consent of the majority of the populace. There’s
always a law being passed that effects the entire country simply because one old bitch in
Iowa wants to tell people how to live their lives. That’s not a democracy- that’s fascism when
the minority controls the majority. Socialism means that the majority rules, and democracy
is a natural extension of socialism. If 51% of the country wants to pass a law, then it is so.
If 49% of the populace are against it, they’re out of luck because they’re the minority.”

[crullers]

Well normally I can't be arsed to talk politics but the little one is away this weekend so I enjoyed a few pints. And I'm paying for it today.

@stubby2 - same thing has happened here, although a lot of our industry has relocated to the southern U.S. as well as Mexico.

@Ephemeris - Yes, the system is broken. We can only hope that it can be fixed. BTW - looking forward to checking out your mag. I just have to try to justify the cost to the wife. Sometimes it seems I live in a dictatorship lol.

[Roo]

Ephemeris, with all due respect, what did you like about that quote? I don't see any true statements there, regardless of what side of this debate I am on.

[Ephemeris]

Ephemeris, with all due respect, what did you like about that quote? I don't see any true statements there, regardless of what side of this debate I am on.

I like the "majority rules" concept. The majority of Americans aren't the ones running the country, it's what the media has dubbed the one-percenters. I also go along with the idea of direct democracy, in which we basically either force our representatives to vote the way we've voted or just vote on an issue directly through local elections or even new-fangled technology like the internets.

Think about it. Washington State residents decide that marijuana should be legal. Registered Washington voters vote in favor of legalization 51%. Though it's a slim margin, the majority has spoken, and there isn't a veto from your governor who opposes the bill on "moral grounds." Thy people's will be done. Democracy in action. All that jazz.

[Ainkor]

I like the "majority rules" concept. The majority of Americans aren't the ones running the country, it's what the media has dubbed the one-percenters.

While I agree with this in principle, you have to eliminate the Citizens United ruling and eliminate lobbying. People are swayed by advertising not because they are stupid, but because we are all human.

The American ideal has long been dead and put up for sale to the highest bidder. I spent the first 3/4ths of my life running from things I didn't agree with. The only way to change is to be the change you want to see and get to a position to enact that change. I realized this a bit too late for this election cycle but I have a pretty awesome idea for the next go round.