Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan - 1776 Will Commence Again' If Guns Taken Away

[truthwolf1]

This same exact sentence could be applied to alcohol, and it would be even more true. I don't let fear run me. Having a bunch of people with mental health issues OFF their meds would probably cause more crazy shit than we see now. The reason you don't see double the shootings is because the other half of the crazies are on their meds.


Edit: Also, suicide on SSRI's is only prevalent in those who previously had suicidal thoughts, which is why you are asked about such things before being prescribed them. If you have had thoughts of suicide no doctor should prescribe them. No pill makes you get up and murder someone. There is no science behind that statement. Not any more than me saying alcohol makes you beat your wife. Sure I could find a website full of people that claim alcohol made them beat their wife, but they would all be wrong.

I agree with all your other points but the medication one is something that doesn't seem to have much evidence behind it.

Good to see you are alive sgreger1. Looks like everybody made it to 2013 without a polar shift!

On the pills, I have seen first hand how meds have pushed friends to attempt suicide or even crazier stuff within weeks of taking the drugs. One friend had uncontrollable anger for an enitre year before the doctor finally took him off of the stuff. Some of the conversations I had with him literally were about violent fantasies if he was pushed too far. Definately feelings/thoughts that these drugs would either conjure up or bring to the surface when they were quite safely already put away.

I agree that there is a very small percentage of society that literally needs meds to allow their mind to have some sort of focus but clearly the norm currently is allowing the over medicating of everyone.

This is not even just about Mental Health but also Physical health too. We are taking too many pills.

[remanifest]

http://www.madinamerica.com/2011/11/depression-2/

Here's an article talking about worsening depression caused by the biochemical changes in the brain from taking antidepressants. There are references to scientific literature. When I have more time I'll look into reading the studies myself, but suffice it to say there is real scientific evidence to show what I'm saying. The problem is that pharmaceutical companies literally fund university studies, and the journals that publish such studies. As a result, there are often skewed results in the studies -- not due to negligence by the scientists conducting the studies, but due to the manner in which the controlled studies are conducted by the pharmaceutical companies themselves. This has an effect of limiting the availability of data for study to that which is generally favorable.

The notion that a person can put a substance, of any composition whatsoever, into their body without a biochemical change occurring doesn't make sense, since all we know is composed of molecules that interact with one another. Especially when modifying brain chemistry, one should be incredibly cautious. As the prescription of SSRIs has taken off, so have the mass shootings increased. Whereby the people who commit these crimes may be mentally ill to begin with, playing roulette with their biochemistry is indeed negligent.

I'm not saying these drugs don't help anybody ever. I'm saying that it is not possible to know how these drugs will affect people, and that brain chemistry is something that science is not particularly adept at understanding at present. Until we have a better grasp on how the biochemistry is affected in individuals who take antipsychotics, it is prudent to discourage people from using such medications except as a last resort, and for only a temporary period of time.

In full disclosure, I personally know people who have, within weeks or months of beginning to take SSRIs, taken their own life. This "side effect" is unacceptable. The FDA mandates the printing of the black box warnings because enough people committed suicide on these drugs to begin with. When doctors should and shouldn't prescribe these drugs is a matter of personal discretion, as there is no standardized method for determining these sorts of mental illnesses. If a person has shown suicidal ideations, and the doctor still prescribes the drug in what they feel is the correct course of action, and the person later commits suicide, the doctor is not held accountable -- but he'll probably still be getting paid from Pharma.

Also, another article that goes over what I'm getting at -- wish it had references, but it's an article, not an academic paper:
Dr. Peter Breggin: Antidepressants Cause Suicide and Violence in Soldiers

[squeezyjohn]

BTW OT but - welcome back sgreger1 - we've missed you!

I've been reading your posts for the last day or so and it felt so normal that I forgot you'd been away.

Cheers

Squeezy

[Zimobog]

Guns.... I'd carry a cop around, but they are too heavy.

Serious, the 2nd isn't about crime, it's about tyranny and protecting free people against the abuses of power.

[SnusoMatic]

guns.... I'd carry a cop around, but they are too heavy.

Serious, the 2nd isn't about crime, it's about tyranny and protecting free people against the abuses of power.

bingo!

[sgreger1]

Good to see you are alive sgreger1. Looks like everybody made it to 2013 without a polar shift!

On the pills, I have seen first hand how meds have pushed friends to attempt suicide or even crazier stuff within weeks of taking the drugs. One friend had uncontrollable anger for an enitre year before the doctor finally took him off of the stuff. Some of the conversations I had with him literally were about violent fantasies if he was pushed too far. Definately feelings/thoughts that these drugs would either conjure up or bring to the surface when they were quite safely already put away.

I agree that there is a very small percentage of society that literally needs meds to allow their mind to have some sort of focus but clearly the norm currently is allowing the over medicating of everyone.

This is not even just about Mental Health but also Physical health too. We are taking too many pills.

Yes a small percentage of people will see these side effects. These individuals should not be on these medications clearly. Just keep in mind that the same goes for many other things, marijuana, alcohol etc. Some people it makes them happy, some people it makes them violent, and for some people it brings out underlying psychological issues that were there all along. I can guarantee that no on took a pill and decided to kill themselves, there was something waiting under the surface prior to taking the medication.

I do agree though that they massively over-prescribe these drugs which is a real issue.

[sgreger1]

The notion that a person can put a substance, of any composition whatsoever, into their body without a biochemical change occurring doesn't make sense,

No one is claiming there is not a biochemical reaction. That is the point of the drug. Many people are seratonin or dopamine deficiencies, and these medications will balance out those individuals. Same thing with ADHD meds, if a regular person takes them it is going to have bad effects, but if someone who is legitimately under stimulated and need to have an upper to balance them out, than it will work wonders for them. There is a whole science behind it and if prescribed properly than these are effective medicines to common ailments. Suicides were up prior to SSRI's. Even if they don't work on everyone, to save even one life is worth it.


The studies cited in your article are from the 70's and make the claim that chronic depression is a transient phenomena and that if left untreated it will just fix itself. I won't debate the obvious so I will just state that this is simply not true. While regular depression (caused by death in the family, loss of work etc) will certainly remedy itself in time, there are cases of chronic depression that make it to where people can't even get out of bed in the morning. Medication has allowed them to regain their life once more and live again. Like I said, like with all medicine it is a risk/benefit situation where one must decide if it is the appropriate course of action given the ailment. T

The second article is from the Huffington Post, which is about 1 peg under Fox news for least trusted publications on planet earth. I would say that the trend of suicide increasing in todays military relative to vietnam si almost entirely related to the amount fo deployments the average soldier is required to go on. In vietnam you typically did one tour and were done. Nowadays, people like my brother for example are on their 7th deployment. That is a lot of time down range. We had a guy in my unit go to a porta potty, put the 240-Bravo (a HEAVY machine gun) into their mouth, and depress the trigger, completely removing most of his head. It's because of the stress of combat and how much longer our troops are exposed to it today relative to previous wars. We have also gotten better about reporting things like suicides and PTSD whereas we tended to ignore these things in large part in previous conflicts.

I do not agree with HuffPo's view that antisyphotics are what is causing the suicide. There are too many people who kill themselves in the military who aren't on antipsychotics for me to believe that. It is because they are subjected to longer and more frequent tours of duty in my opinion.

[sgreger1]

BTW OT but - welcome back sgreger1 - we've missed you!

I've been reading your posts for the last day or so and it felt so normal that I forgot you'd been away.

Cheers

Squeezy

HAhahah, nice to see you and everyone else again Squeezy. I am divorced and single again and trying to maintain some sort of interaction with humans instead of just going to work>home>work>home, even if those humans are on the internet. So I figured i'd hit up my favorite place again! Now you all must suffer my walls of text once more.

[whalen]

Heavy weapons are self selecting. Not many people can afford a tank who's gas mileage is rated at gallons per mile, and rounds that likely cost thousands per shot. Magazine capacity regulations are ridiculous. I can swap magazines faster than I can get a portion of snus. One 30 round or three 10 round magazines? Who cares? They're virtually the same. 100 round magazines are for n00bs, and I think that was demonstrated in Colorado. If I'm not mistaken his 100 round magazine jammed, which is pretty much par for the course. You buy something like that for an amusing novelty, not real work.

All this is for politicians who want more control, and to curry favor from the fearful. You know what scares me? Going on the road after a misting rain. The braindead masses threaten me every second. I couldn't care less about firearms. I fear alien abduction as much as I fear firearms.

HAhahah, nice to see you and everyone else again Squeezy. I am divorced and single again and trying to maintain some sort of interaction with humans instead of just going to work>home>work>home, even if those humans are on the internet. So I figured i'd hit up my favorite place again! Now you all must suffer my walls of text once more.

Glad to see you back, I have felt bad about you leaving.

[sgreger1]

Glad to see you back, I have felt bad about you leaving.

You as well my friend! Just had to take a little time out while I dealt with life for a minute, but back to normal now so all is well.

[remanifest]

I'm just going to leave this here: http://www.pdf-archive.com/2013/01/1...de-suicide.pdf

Generated using the database at cchrint.org. My linking of a blog on the Huffington Post wasn't an endorsement of them as a journalistic endeavor. I also believe that the Huffington Post is a heap of garbage, as is the case with most mainstream media. On the other hand, sometimes news agencies publish worthwhile stories. I also will concede that some of the suicides in deployed troops are due to the ridiculous number of tours they go through. That aside, I know of more than a couple of stateside suicides among Soldiers, Sailors and Marines, from people who have not deployed but were recently placed on antidepressants (in some cases, more than one at the same time, which is a big no-no).

I'm done debating this topic, but look forward to more interesting discussions down the line - thanks for staying civil sgreger, it's been nice to have a well-thought debate partner. I enjoy debating, and I hope you didn't take offense to my responses because that was never intended.

[wadetheblade]

Quick question for you guys, why is it that everywhere I read and everyone I talk to gives the impression that the government is going to "ban guns, and take away guns" though all I can find anywhere is that assault rifle ban would be re-implimented, as well as restrictions on capacity. Please someone explain this to me and give me some RELIABLE links. I own guns, but I personally have no need for an assault rifle.

[lxskllr]

Quick question for you guys, why is it that everywhere I read and everyone I talk to gives the impression that the government is going to "ban guns, and take away guns" though all I can find anywhere is that assault rifle ban would be re-implimented, as well as restrictions on capacity. Please someone explain this to me and give me some RELIABLE links. I own guns, but I personally have no need for an assault rifle.

A ban on "assault" rifles(propaganda term) is a ban on guns. It's also a first step in greater control. They have to start with what they think they can get away with and ratchet it up a bit at a time so people don't immediately revolt. The technique should be readily apparent to any tobacco user.

[wadetheblade]

Lxskllr, I know your a smart man, but I have to disagree that there is a difference in what is referred to as an assault rifle and a regular rifle that has to be chambered after every shot. I do not beleive that "they" are attempting to take away all guns, which apparently most people seem to think. We all are entitled our own opinions.

[lxskllr]

Lxskllr, I know your a smart man, but I have to disagree that there is a difference in what is referred to as an assault rifle and a regular rifle that has to be chambered after every shot.

Assault weapons?