Forensic expert: Trayvon Martin shot leaning over George Zimmerman

[wa3zrm]

SOS... hot as hell here... good to see you back and posting!

[voodooman]

This whole case makes me laugh. Too much emotion over it, as though this shooting was any more special than the hundreds of others that happen every day. It's Florida man, with the weather over there who could be expected to act or think rationally?

right!? zimmerman probably thought it was another one of those friggin' face-eatin' zombies they got down there.

[sgreger1]

right!? zimmerman probably thought it was another one of those friggin' face-eatin' zombies they got down there.

I propose a stand-your-ground law which lets you assume all Floridians are flesh eating zombies who are to be taken down on site. We should blanket the place with bath salts and then send in the marines.

On this zimmerman thing though, its tragic what happened, and Zimmerman probably could have avoided all of this by not being so hyper vigilant, but from a legal standpoint the prosecution had NO case against Zimmerman, who clearly acted in self defense. This is why they weren't planning on even having a trial until the media made a big deal out of it. Now everyone is equating Treyvon Martin to the likes of MLK and shit, saying he is a civil rights leader, images of Malcolm X with hoodies on are flooding my facebook wall etc. It's disgusting and an insult to the rights movement. The kid was a known criminal with a history of violence, drug use etc, he was almost to his dads house when he saw zimmerman and turned around to pursue zimmerman, he threw the first and only punches, making him the initiator of the fight and the aggressor, and he continued to beat up Zimmerman once he was already on the floor (forensic evidence is consistent with this as well as grass stains on TM's knees and Zimmermans back). It was an open and shut case if you put emotions aside. Plus the kid's texts and social media showed gang affiliation, he was currently in possession of stolen jewelry, and he had unregistered firearms he was trying to sell to the other kids at school etc, the prosecution didn't have shit for a case from the start and knew they would lose. Let's not pretend he's the new black jesus, just someone who attacked a guy following him and ended up getting shot.

Then it comes out that the prosecution withheld evidence and are now going to have to face legal action due to that, so they lost the case even with a stacked deck. The whole thing should be an embarrassment.

My heart goes out to the parents though, no one expects their kids to get shot walking home for any reason. And we've all probably been that troubled teen who was a little quick to throw down with random people, so I know at least I can empathize with the kid, but we also can't change basic human rights like the right to defend oneself just because we feel bad.

[jagmanss]

Oh goodie... A peace rally today in orlando, Naacp is in town Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton Martin Luther King the third all the bigwigs are coming to Orlando for a big peace rally..... Can't wait to see how peaceful this is Feeling all warm and fuzzy already

They are race baiters....Without race issues they would be unemployed.....

[Thunder_Snus]

Apparently a "peace rally" is being held in nearby peoria. The SAME EXACT THING happened in south carolina a few years ago except the races were reversed. The black 30 year old man was let off free for killing an unarmed 17 year old white kid. The story never made it past local news and there were no protests about it. This whole "racial" tensions will stop as soon as Jesse Jackson and crew stop making one everytime someone black is killed by a different race. Black on black crime is the number one killer of black youth. I'm not calling the Japanese racist because one of them killed my great grandfather in WW2.

Jackson, Sharpton, and everyone else in the "everything against someone black is racist" crew should be treated like terrorists and sent to Gitmo. They are encouraging people to assemble under what they call a "peaceful protest" which will turn into violence. If it does turn to violence they should be treated as terrorist leaders.

Wouldn't a more peaceful thing to do be to not hold peace rallies? All it takes is one person to decide to rampage and one other person to follow him before the masses join.

[SnusoMatic]

This. According to the FLA law he is not guilty. It was 2 stupid people being stupid people and one stupid person put himself in a situation where the other stupid person would attack him and the first stupid person shot him. Martin should have just told him who he was and where he was going...at the same time zimmerman shouldnt have followed him. 2 stupid acts. The 2 seconds of saying I'm visiting my dads fiance at "address" would have been a lot easier than mouthing off as im sure he did. At the same time we should think, when we see someone and they look up to no good how often are they up to no good. I remember being a little shit head 14 year old going around town lighting off fireworks/knocking on peoples doors and running etc. When my Parents said it sounded like i was up to no good and when people said that to me and my friends on our way to commit these acts they were right. We were. Then of course it was made into a racial situation although it clearly wasn't. Trayvon being Obama's fictional son certainly didnt help the situation.
A random elderly couple were almost killed after Jamie Foxx tweeted the wrong address for Zimmerman a few days after the incident happened, and not a single arrest was made for people posting threats online about killing or raping white people if he was found not guilty, although people get arrested for threatening to beat up a person at school over Xbox Live. There was no media coverage of the white guy that got killed on 55th street a few hours after the verdict. The media brainwashed everyone into thinking that Trayvon was walking in his valedictorian cap and gown helping girl scouts raise money when this evil skin head unleashed his automatic assault rifle on him. He was portrayed as a defenseless 12 year old despite being 17 and 3 inches taller than Zimmerman. You can note the weight difference but Zimmerman appears to be quite fat, he isn't exactly jacked with muscle. From pictures alone I'd pick Trayvon in a fight over him. On top of the media coverage being incredibly wrong Trayvons mother did nothing but try to make a profit off of her sons death. The whole year of this ordeal made me sick with how much bullshit people will eat up so they can join a new bandwagon.

you quoted me before your comment so i assume you were commenting on my post. i stated my first post "i think legally he was not guilty." so we agree about that. Where I differ from you is I blame Zimmerman for the entire situation because

A) He started it. If he would have kept his nose where it belongs Martin would have went home. We would never have known who either was.
B) Zimmerman had the gun.
C) Zimmerman is the adult in this situation.
D) Zimmerman had training and did not follow his training.

If Martin smoked pot, slept with a hand grenade, threw darts at pictures of white people and kicked kittens in his spare time Zimmerman had no way of knowing. All he had to go on was a black guy walking down the road and that is all he could ever say incriminating about Martin THAT DAY.

How Jamie Foxx, Obama or even Martins mother acts or lives has no effect at all on Zimmerman's guilt or Martins innocence. The state of Fla has a responsiblity to Martin to seek justice for his death. No one else, not even his mother, not the NAACP, Jackson or anyone else. In short, no one else has anything to do with this case when it comes to Zimmermans guilt or innocence. All that stuff is just smoke.

Zimmerman got fat after this thing happened. When this happened he was pretty lean. Not what i would call fighting fit but between him and Martin.... if he could not handle himself he should have stayed home.

Your last sentence, i agree except it makes me sick knowing how many people think Zimmerman had a right to kill Martin. In my state, which is two up from FL, Zimmerman would have gotten a two day trial, with the second day just threw in to make it look fair, and today he would be sitting in prison. FL law saved his behind.... and the lack of witnesses.

[SnusoMatic]

We will never know who started the fight. So any speculation about it is pointless. Maybe Martin thought he was "gansta" and attacked Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman thought he was a cop and tried to manhandle Martin. Regardless, what we do know from the evidence is that Martin ended up beating Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was on the ground with Martin on top of him when Zimmerman fired the gun. The only question then is, was Zimmerman justified in using lethal force to defend himself? Imho, yes, he was. If somebody punching you while you're down isn't a reason to use lethal force, then what is?

Snusomatic brings forth two arguments commonly heard:

1) Zimmerman put himself in that situation, therefore he's to blame.

I strongly disagree. He volunteered to help keep his neighbourhood safe. That seems to me like a noble pursuit. To say that it was wrong to do that is to say that we shouldn't be allowed to defend ourselves and our property. That only the police may do so. Newsflash, the police only shows up after the burglaries, robberies and murders have been committed. Neighbourhood watches actually do prevent them.

2) Zimmerman should have let Martin beat him and/or should have learned to fight without a gun.

This is completely preposterous. You cannot ask somebody to "take a beating". Notwithstanding the risk of life-threatening injuries from punches and kicks, it should be obvious that nobody should be precluded from defending themselves against physical violence. As for "fighting like a man", well, even professional martial artists, boxers and kickboxers have been killed in random street fights.

Maybe I did not make myself clear enough. Zimmerman is legally not guilty and morally is guilty. Your points are commonly held by many people who would disagree if Martin was their son.

Newsflash! This was not about home or personal defense. It was about a nut case following an innocent young man through his fathers gated community. Martins father lived there because it should have been a safer place to live. Zimmerman, the cosplay policeman turned the neighborhood into his personal hunting zone.

Again I must have not been clear enough in my post. If Zimmerman feels the need to follow innocent teenagers around he should expect problems. He carried a gun with him. He never intended to fight anyone because he is a *ussy. Again I say, he should have took his beating before he killed the very person HE started this problem with. He is responsible for his actions just like you or me. He knew what he was getting into before he started, that is WHY he had a gun, because he knew he cant fight. So yes, again, I say he should have taken his beating rather than kill Martin.

Being neighborhood watch does not give you any more rights than Martin had when he walked back from the store that day.

I believe in second amendment rights to the max. Go back and read some of my post about it. Here's the thing, you hear how some people want to make Zimmerman seem racial? They rant and rave about it, never let it rest. When the facts show he is not but they won't let up? If I as a firm supporter of the second amendment backs up a nut who killed an innocent young man I am just like they are.

Zimmerman is not guilty in the eyes of the law. I admit he is probably not guilty under Fla law. We have laws that are wrong and this law let him go free. I accept that too. But just like in the OJ case I disagree with the outcome.

[SnusoMatic]

Awww Lord we have new info on Zimmermans lawyer trying to take legal action because of with held evidence

"Kruidbos testified last month that he found embarrassing photos on Martin's phone that included pictures of a clump of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol."
http://news.yahoo.com/zimmermans-law...025529776.html

Anyone and everyone you talk to though will tell you how Martin was handing out puppies and delivering hot meals to the elderly when this happened. For how happy the leaders of the "black" community were with the OJ verdict they seem to be taking a complete 180 approach to this because someone of their own race died. 3 African-American individuals killed a white waitress a few days ago for her tip money.....haven't seen that in the news.

i agree with you that Martin may not have been at the church every sunday. How does that have anything to do with Zimmerman's responsibility in this matter? If martin would have been doing anything wrong don't you think Zimmermans lawyers would have at least tried to bring it up? The best (worst) they could come up with was what you named. So he smoked pot and had pictures of guns. He was doing neither on the way home that day but Zimmerman did have a gun. I don't know that Zimmerman was tested for pot smoking so maybe he was smoking pot. Since he did have a gun and we can say he "could" have been smoking pot, does that make Zimmerman a killer? No. Not in and of itself and the worst Zimmermans lawyers could dig up on Martin was he smoked pot.

The cirus surrounding this case has nothing to do with Zimmerman's actions or responsibility.

[SnusoMatic]

This whole case makes me laugh. Too much emotion over it, as though this shooting was any more special than the hundreds of others that happen every day. It's Florida man, with the weather over there who could be expected to act or think rationally?

what makes this emotional is two things (in my mind).

1) How some people are willing to overlook what Zimmerman did.
2) How some people automatically think Zimmerman did it because Martin was black.

Both bother me a lot. It bothers me worse than there are many other murders each year. It bothers me that the day before the jury ruled in Zimmerman case in NY a man got 10 years for beating a 2 year old baby to death. There is no justice. What would be the proper justice for beating a two year old to death? out of ten years he will do maybe five.

Anyway, i understand why you feel the way that you do.

[SnusoMatic]

I propose a stand-your-ground law which lets you assume all Floridians are flesh eating zombies who are to be taken down on site. We should blanket the place with bath salts and then send in the marines.

On this zimmerman thing though, its tragic what happened, and Zimmerman probably could have avoided all of this by not being so hyper vigilant, but from a legal standpoint the prosecution had NO case against Zimmerman, who clearly acted in self defense. This is why they weren't planning on even having a trial until the media made a big deal out of it. Now everyone is equating Treyvon Martin to the likes of MLK and shit, saying he is a civil rights leader, images of Malcolm X with hoodies on are flooding my facebook wall etc. It's disgusting and an insult to the rights movement. The kid was a known criminal with a history of violence, drug use etc, he was almost to his dads house when he saw zimmerman and turned around to pursue zimmerman, he threw the first and only punches, making him the initiator of the fight and the aggressor, and he continued to beat up Zimmerman once he was already on the floor (forensic evidence is consistent with this as well as grass stains on TM's knees and Zimmermans back). It was an open and shut case if you put emotions aside. Plus the kid's texts and social media showed gang affiliation, he was currently in possession of stolen jewelry, and he had unregistered firearms he was trying to sell to the other kids at school etc, the prosecution didn't have shit for a case from the start and knew they would lose. Let's not pretend he's the new black jesus, just someone who attacked a guy following him and ended up getting shot.

Then it comes out that the prosecution withheld evidence and are now going to have to face legal action due to that, so they lost the case even with a stacked deck. The whole thing should be an embarrassment.

My heart goes out to the parents though, no one expects their kids to get shot walking home for any reason. And we've all probably been that troubled teen who was a little quick to throw down with random people, so I know at least I can empathize with the kid, but we also can't change basic human rights like the right to defend oneself just because we feel bad.

i almost agree with you and do on most points. Except, who Martin was has nothing to do with why Zimmerman followed him or why he killed him. Also, how would you like a zimmermon living on every street in the country? If martin would have been doing anything wrong that day Zimmerman would have brought it up at his trial. That mean Zimmerman followed him and killed him for some unknown reason which I suggest was because Zimmerman was playing starsky and hutch. That is not how most adults act and thank goodness or a lot of innocent young men would be killed each day.

Legally, in Fla, it was self defense. Morally Zimmerman caused this who situation himself. Had it happened in my little southern town Zimmerman would be in prison. I respect state law so i accept Fla verdict but morally that don't take the responsibility off Zimmerman.

[SnusoMatic]

Oh goodie... A peace rally today in orlando, Naacp is in town Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton Martin Luther King the third all the bigwigs are coming to Orlando for a big peace rally..... Can't wait to see how peaceful this is Feeling all warm and fuzzy already

They are race baiters....Without race issues they would be unemployed.....

I agree with you 99%. But before the 1960's there were no outspoken race leaders. I wish they would pick their fights based on logic though. When they "just" protest anything that involves whites or partial whites they lose respectability... in my eyes anyway.

[Thunder_Snus]

SnusoMatic. Recent break-ins had been happening in the area. The gated community was THREE streets. I'm not sure where you're from but where im from we had 24 streets and i knew every damn person in that town as well as the 2 towns north that had 200 people each. Everyone did. If recent break-ins had been happening and you saw someone that didnt belong (no not because he was black BECAUSE HE WASNT FROM THERE) wouldn't you feel bad if the person down the road had been robbed a few minutes later? The 2 seconds it took to say im trayvon im going to see my whatever at this address would have been a lot easier than trying to "teach that white hispanic a lesson" and start beating the shit out of him. Regardless of who started it there was no need to attack. He could have simply ran if he wanted to be a little shit about it. Zimmerman was quite thin at the time from the pictures I've seen but Trayvon easily looks like he could take him in a fight. I hate people calling him a child. HE WAS 17 Sure he was a child if he had been convicted of a felony, sure he couldn't legally purchase alcohol or tobacoo. What makes you an adult? There are people that get a drivers license at age 14. People have started multi-million dollar businesses before 15.

Was what Zimmerman did justifiable? Let's try something fun by using our imagination. If i gave you a gun layed you down on the ground and started beating the living shit out of you what would you do? If your answer is that you would take a beating until i killed you or were seriously injured you are lying and incredibly stupid. O because he was a "child" it was bad if he was 18 it would have been ok? Do you think Zimmerman had time to stop him and ask for his ID? Sure he shouldn't have followed him but he was trying to keep his neighborhood safe (which had been experiencing theft lately) Poor judgement on both sides. I have no problem with answering peoples questions if they perceive me as doing something suspicious. Hell I do it almost everyday at work (us insurance guys are always trying to screw you even though we get payed the same no matter what price your policy is) Instead of showing zimmeran how thug-life swag g-money yolo he was. He could have answered a few questions. He didn't he attacked like an idiotic thug would and got shot for using his idiotic judgement. case closed. Had Zimmerman not shot him i can guarantee all of Trayvon's homies would have heard about the "ass-beating he layed down on the mexican"

[wa3zrm]

...Jackson, Sharpton, and everyone else in the "everything against someone black is racist" crew should be treated like terrorists and sent to Gitmo. They are encouraging people to assemble under what they call a "peaceful protest" which will turn into violence. If it does turn to violence they should be treated as terrorist leaders.

Don't know if it's practical; however, an interesting point of view!

[wa3zrm]

Doctor tells patient she has bad case of 'ghetto booty'
QMI Agency ^

A typical diagnosis it was not.
A woman has filed a complaint with the Tennessee Department of Health after a doctor attributed her back pain to her "ghetto booty."
Terry Ragland, 55, said she "couldn't believe" that Dr. Timothy Sweo, who she had never visited before, made the comment about her posterior.
"I think I blacked out after he said 'ghetto booty'," Ragland said.
After complaining to the office manager, Ragland received a letter three weeks later in which Sweo wrote, "I was trying to take technical conversation regarding your lower back and make it less technical."
Ragland was offended by the letter because she felt it implied she wouldn't be able to understand the more technical explanation of her lower back pain -- lumbar lordosis.
In keeping with with his rather unusual bedside manner, Sweo responded to the controversy by saying, "I think I do understand why her feelings were hurt but I don't understand what's offensive about it."

[Premium Parrots]

Since this issue is a hot topic with firm opinions on both sides, I have added a poll to the thread so we can get a grip on the majority vote. This is an anonymous poll so your username will not appear. You may only vote once. Make it count. This will be interesting. Thanks

PP