The Louisiana Heist

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  • wa3zrm
    Member
    • May 2009
    • 4436

    The Louisiana Heist

    (Food-stamp fraudsters should be punished to the full extent of the law.)
    National Review Online ^ |

    On Saturday, Louisiana’s “EBT” system malfunctioned, causing spending limits on users’ food-stamp cards temporarily to be lifted. In two counties at least, recipients noticed the error, spread the word, and set about trying to check out as much as they could fit into shopping carts. At Walmarts in the towns of Springhill and Mansfield, employees called corporate headquarters to ask what they should do. They were instructed to “keep the registers ringing.” This they did — and with a vengeance.

    By the time that proper limits on the cards had been restored a couple of hours later, the shelves had been all but stripped bare. “Just about everything is gone, I’ve never seen it in that condition,” Anthony Fuller, a customer in Mansfield, told the press. Will Lyn, the chief of police in nearby Springhill, agreed, telling the Daily Mail that “it was definitely worse than Black Friday. It was worse than anything we had ever seen in this town. There was no food left on any of the shelves, and no meat left. The grocery part of Walmart was totally decimated.” One man even managed to spend $700.
    “I saw people drag out eight to ten grocery carts,” Lynd reported. Those who did not manage to take advantage in time simply abandoned their hauls in the middle of the aisles.
    “Contrary to rumors,” CBS proclaimed, “nobody was unruly or arrested and [the police] were mainly there to help prevent shoplifting and theft.” Given the circumstances, “preventing theft” is a rather peculiar way of describing the behavior of officers who stood and watched the incident. Whether or not local authorities had legal cause to arrest the shoppers on the spot, there really should be no doubt that widespread theft took place — or, perhaps, that widespread fraud took place. Neither that the beneficiaries evidently believe that they could get away with it, nor that the victim was the unsympathetically anonymous mass of Louisianan and federal taxpayers alters the plain fact. This was a crime.



    Uttering what has become the most widely reprinted quote from the scene, a witness told local television station KSLA that stealing food when presented with the opportunity was a “natural human” reaction. If this is true, it should serve as an indictment of the society that Washington, D.C., has created, and of the vastness of a government that has disconnected so many people from the real world. We are not talking here about a moral grey area, in which starving people saw and took a rare chance to feed themselves. Instead, we are talking about people who, over and above their normal allowance, elected to steal from the millions of people from whose paychecks the food-stamp program’s funds are forcibly taken — and on whose beneficence they rely.
    Indeed, even if the behavior was the product of “human nature,” merely stating this is the case does not inoculate one from the consequences. The best governments and institutions are those designed by people who recognize the contours of man’s constitution. But to recognize human nature is not necessarily to indulge it, and the people who elected to steal when afforded the opportunity should be punished by the system for having done so, as would be any other thief. Doing so, it seems, will not be too difficult. The very same electronic system that allowed recipients to take advantage of a glitch also recorded their doing so. Officials, news reports say, are not sure how to proceed. How about prosecution?
    That so many people apparently did not recognize that they were stealing is problematic. In the January 23, 2012, issue of National Review, Daniel Foster wrote an essay on the necessity of “restoring a measure of shame to the welfare state.” By way of illustration, Foster focused on the movie Cinderella Man and discussed the behavior of its central character, Jimmy Braddock, who reluctantly takes public assistance when he feels he has no choice:
    Braddock owes no apologies for doing whatever it takes to keep his family together. But Braddock is sorry nonetheless, and more important, he’s ashamed. It’s a shame so powerful that it kept Braddock from looking for a handout until he had exhausted all other possibilities. And it’s a shame so powerful that by the end of the second act, with Braddock well on his way to the miraculous championship bout that gives the film its title and its central metaphor, he returns every cent of charity he ever took
    “To argue this,” Foster concludes, “is not, as some would no doubt imply, to argue for the wholesale dissolution of the welfare state.” Instead, it is to argue that shame is “the social virtue most critical to the success of the American project,” for “the only society that can make entitlements work is one that doesn’t feel entitled.”
    Certainly, we can debate ad nauseam the degree to which citizens should feel ashamed for taking handouts. But what should be beyond discussion, surely, is that when a significant number of people feel so comfortable taking what others provide that they elect not only to rip the system off but to encourage others to do the same, we have a serious moral issue on our hands.
    Acknowledging this does not make one Ayn Rand. There is a reason that even the most fervent socialists have adopted the Biblical aphorism that “if anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat”: This principle was even codified into the 1936 Soviet Constitution. “The labors of thirty or forty honest and industrious men shall not be consumed to maintain a hundred and fifty idle loiterers,” instructed John Smith at Jamestown in 1609, setting a precedent that would obtain in America for three and a half centuries. In a modern industrial economy, one can construct a case in favor of loosening this principle in order to feed the truly indigent. But there is no such case to be made in favor of allowing wards of the state to steal the excess.
    That the amorphous “government” was on the hook, as opposed to a local church or benevolent association, does not change anything; nor does it matter that the welfare in this case was distributed via an impersonal electronic card rather than by someone with a face. Would it have been more moral, for example, if the shoppers had taken advantage of a lack of security and stolen the food from Walmart directly, rather than from their fellow citizens? And if not, why not? There is, after all, nothing magically different about money that is stolen from the federal treasury. One suspects that many in the United States are in need of a refresher course of the sort that Mrs. Thatcher gave a sybaritic British public in 1982, when she reminded them of that “one unchallengeable truth,” that “the government has no money of its own. All that it has it takes in taxes or borrows at interest. It’s all of you — everyone here — that pays.”
    Presumably, the people most annoyed at this behavior will be progressives who do not consider this latest incident to be symptomatic of a wider ill. In addition to sticking their fingers into the eyes of taxpayers, what shoppers who spent beyond their allowances did in Louisiana was take aid away from other users who did not. Conservatives who suggest that the food-stamp budget has ranged wildly out of control and needs trimming back are immediately accused by their ideological foes of “stealing food from the mouths of children,” to borrow a favorite phrase of Nancy Pelosi’s. What, then, are individual citizens doing who diminish the available food-stamp budget? What responsibility do they carry?
    Conservatives are fond of repeating the old line that the republic “can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury.” In Louisiana this weekend, many citizens got the opportunity to do this without even having to bother to vote — and they took it. Whatever legitimate disagreements there are about the role of democracy in a free society, there should be none here. This was theft, pure and simple, and its perpetrators should be treated as any other thief would be.
    If you have any problems with my posts or signature


  • Frankie Reloaded
    Banned Users
    • Jan 2011
    • 541

    #2
    This might be trolling, but as I see it, a few poor people took a few shopping carts full of food from the richest nation in the world. Big deal.

    And to be punished to the full extent of the law? Like "someone from the family stole a loaf of bread: Adults shall be hanged and kids sent to Australia"...?

    Comment

    • halocog
      Member
      • Oct 2011
      • 649

      #3
      Of course the people are going to act like a bunch of farm animals. It's like Black Friday on meth. But I would venture a guess and say JP Morgan Chase was the provider of the EBT system in that state. And they make billions from it. I think they should cover the costs, in full, themselves.
      Originally posted by Frosted
      I knew he was committed as an actor but I think he went too far in his latest role as Princess Diana

      Comment

      • truthwolf1
        Member
        • Oct 2008
        • 2696

        #4
        There will be no punishment. Not the resources for it and the libs would scream that it would harm welfare and illegal alien babies for bad decisions the parents made.

        Working citizens and Chinese slave labor will make up the difference. Like always.

        Comment

        • squeezyjohn
          Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 2497

          #5
          Oh I think the rich can afford to keep the poor in food in the west ... I, personally see it as a duty as someone who has money left over at the end of the month.

          If the rich purse string-holders don't wish to give away more if their systems fail, I cannot blame the poor who have no idea where their next meal might come from for trying to stash this unforeseen bonus away for the future ... that's only human nature.

          If you engineer a society where this need doesn't exist - this kind of abuse will also not exist ... period ... and then you can really go after the blaggers who don't want to do a day's work to support their families ... but only then!
          Squeezyjohn

          Sometimes wrong and sometimes right .... but ALWAYS certain!!!

          Comment

          • Frosted
            Member
            • Mar 2010
            • 5798

            #6
            I agree with Squeezy. It is our duty to help the less well off so they're not forced by situation which in this case is a direct result of filthy rich bankers f*cling things up, to stoop to this level. This is an act of desperation.

            It's happening here too. Food banks are being heavily relied upon. Our right wing government is squeezing the poor dry to satisfy the middle classes and to grab every last penny and every last drop of human pride.
            I'm quite right wing, but as far as benefits and the National Health Service is concerned I'm a hard line socialist. Not many people aspire to be on benefits. It's only 2% in this country so it's not a problem to keep them from living like animals. Treat a man like an animal and he will behave like one.
            Last edited by Frosted; 17-10-13, 12:13 AM.

            Comment

            • squeezyjohn
              Member
              • Jan 2008
              • 2497

              #7
              Thanks Frosted ... I'm afraid that your explanation of your politics makes me think you're not as right wing as you'd like to think. You're left wing in all the right places for me!

              And you're getting a massive round of applause from this computer keyboard for that!
              Squeezyjohn

              Sometimes wrong and sometimes right .... but ALWAYS certain!!!

              Comment

              • Thunder_Snus
                Member
                • Oct 2011
                • 1316

                #8
                People go over the limit of what the government is HANDING them for free.....its human nature.
                A man in Florida kills someone because he is being attacked.......its racist.

                In my small town there used to be an ancient machine at the laundromat that gave you quarters for paper bills. Since it was so ancient it would spit out quarters if you just fed it a dollar sized piece of paper. Those people were fully prosecuted when caught. How is taking food knowing you can't actually "afford it.....(get it handed to you)" any different? I guarantee if you look at the tapes these people werent filling up shopping carts with bread milk and rice. I guarantee the most expensive foods were taken in droves. I'm sure there was hamburger helper left over but no prime rib.

                Comment

                • Thunder_Snus
                  Member
                  • Oct 2011
                  • 1316

                  #9
                  Originally posted by squeezyjohn View Post
                  Oh I think the rich can afford to keep the poor in food in the west ... I, personally see it as a duty as someone who has money left over at the end of the month.

                  If the rich purse string-holders don't wish to give away more if their systems fail, I cannot blame the poor who have no idea where their next meal might come from for trying to stash this unforeseen bonus away for the future ... that's only human nature.

                  If you engineer a society where this need doesn't exist - this kind of abuse will also not exist ... period ... and then you can really go after the blaggers who don't want to do a day's work to support their families ... but only then!
                  I would have no problem giving up a small percentage of my paycheck in order to help out the less fortunate. I know you're from England so I'm not exactly sure how your system works but ours is incredibly flawed. We give people money for free because they elect not to work, we make no checks to see if they need these benefits and most can open a PO box in every state and receive those benefits 50 times a month. The system atleast here in IL was supposed to be to help people buy essentials like bread milk cheese rice, however if you ask any grocery store these people bitch and moan about how they can't buy beer and steaks with it so they just let them use it for that. The people who benefit from these programs typically have no incentive to work because having a job would eliminate their benefits and they would actually end up with less money. For every one person that is truly in a shitty situation and needs help there are 50 just looking to not work. Hell people have gotten benefits AFTER winning millions in a lottery because that money is not part of their "income."

                  I realize that I am more fortunate than most college students with my income which is why I always am willing to help people when they need a few bucks to make rent, get some groceries, or even just need a nice place to eat for a night that I can treat them to. I have no problem doing this but the situation most people find is that someone driving a nicer car living in a nicer house with more free time is getting more money for doing nothing. It's a daily event when I go into a gas station to get a drink or some chips (crisps) and the person in front of me is wearing 400$ headphones buying Sam adams beer and 6 bags of beef jerky paying with an EBT card, I personally consider it selfish that they dont turn to me and say thank you.

                  I completely understand your point of view. We're all in the same society living our daily lives and sometimes people make some bad decisions or just wind up in a shitty spot and that sucks and I'd love to help but the system makes it impossible to be happy with the "help" you have provided.

                  Comment

                  • wa3zrm
                    Member
                    • May 2009
                    • 4436

                    #10
                    Just a quick question...

                    Anyone ever been a Walmart on "Welfare Check" Day?
                    If you have any problems with my posts or signature


                    Comment

                    • sirloot
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 2607

                      #11
                      Lawd No ! i avoid walmart like the plague no matter the hour day or month

                      Comment

                      • Frosted
                        Member
                        • Mar 2010
                        • 5798

                        #12
                        It's ignoring the elephant in the room. The people on benefits are a very tiny problem made to seem like a big problem by the media. The big massive gigantic problem is the capitalist financial system. People are so easily mislead and have short memories.

                        Comment

                        • squeezyjohn
                          Member
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 2497

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Frosted View Post
                          It's ignoring the elephant in the room. The people on benefits are a very tiny problem made to seem like a big problem by the media. The big massive gigantic problem is the capitalist financial system. People are so easily mislead and have short memories.
                          And the ones who are the problem are the only ones with enough money to pay to avoid justice being done by weaseling around on the edge of what is legal and what is loophole. They're also the ones in a position to cover up for eachother when it looks like we might find out that they've been stealing all the cream from the top of the milk and shoving it in tax-havens.
                          Squeezyjohn

                          Sometimes wrong and sometimes right .... but ALWAYS certain!!!

                          Comment

                          • Thunder_Snus
                            Member
                            • Oct 2011
                            • 1316

                            #14
                            I do all of my shopping at Jewel-Osco. So i can go no matter the day. Plus they give me something like 15% off for being a student so I end up with better products at similar prices. That being said I am incredibly hard to shop for so my girlfriends family pretty much just gives me walmart gift cards throughout the year. Every 6 months I seem to accumulate about 300$ worth of them so usually on a monday/tuesday early morning I will go buy new towels and other stuff i can't buy at a smaller scale grocery store.

                            Squeezy I really don't think you understand the U.S welfare system. For every 1$ that gets taken away from me i wouldn't even think more than 0.01$ goes to someone who actually needs it. The other 0.99 goes to buy food for someone who's income (sometimes) goes to paying for the 30-40k car they bought. The government pays their rent, gives them food, and then an allowance on top of that to go buy stuff. The same people on the receiving ends of these benefits are the same asshole that drive around my parking lot at 2 a.m with their 2000$ car audio system turned on full blast.

                            Give me a system where I am truly helping those who need it instead of those that are too lazy and I would donate more than what is forcibly taken from me. Until then I will continue to oppose this broken system we live in where I could quit my job and make more money.

                            Comment

                            • trebli
                              Member
                              • Mar 2010
                              • 797

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Thunder_Snus View Post
                              Squeezy I really don't think you understand the U.S welfare system. For every 1$ that gets taken away from me i wouldn't even think more than 0.01$ goes to someone who actually needs it. The other 0.99 goes to buy food for someone who's income (sometimes) goes to paying for the 30-40k car they bought. The government pays their rent, gives them food, and then an allowance on top of that to go buy stuff.

                              Gentlemen, listen to Thunder. He is telling you the truth. The problem is not just a few needy people. The problem is we have millions and millions of people who have never worked a day in their lives.


                              We now have 4th and 5th generation welfare recipients who have never worked. Their mothers never worked. Their grandmothers never worked. Did their father work? They don't know who their father is. In some cases even their mothers don't know the father is. "It could be this dude. It could be that dude or it could be some other dude."


                              This is the situation in America today.

                              Comment

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