The Louisiana Heist

[halocog]

I think you guys may be a little mislead on how much of our tax dollars go to welfare type programs. The bulk of it actually goes to wasteful defense spending. While I'll agree there is a ton of EBT fraud, disability on the other hand is shaping up. A bit too much actually. One of my former coworkers is really disabled. Type 1 diabetes and it seems to be getting the best of him (passing out cold at work a couple of times, has been in hospital several times). It took him two years to get any sort of disability aid.

[Thunder_Snus]

I think you guys may be a little mislead on how much of our tax dollars go to welfare type programs. The bulk of it actually goes to wasteful defense spending. While I'll agree there is a ton of EBT fraud, disability on the other hand is shaping up. A bit too much actually. One of my former coworkers is really disabled. Type 1 diabetes and it seems to be getting the best of him (passing out cold at work a couple of times, has been in hospital several times). It took him two years to get any sort of disability aid.

And your co-worker is exactly the person I would love to help. Yes it took him 2 years because we were wasting money on other people to fraudulently get benefits. Ever go to a professional sporting event? Heading up to the stadium you pass all those people either sitting looking helpless playing guitar, reading you the bible etc. They are making more money than me. On top of that all that cash someone gives them they get unemployment/disability, then they have children like its a competition to collect more and those children are raised to learn that only those suckers work. Their mothers has a 13 chrysler 300 while their friends parents only have a 10 chrysler 200 and they work.....Mama sits at home and watches tv, drinks malt liqour has a card that provides her with all the food she wants and the government pays her rent on the house. Hell if I was raised like that I really don't think I would ever be able to understand why people do work. People can't find places to rent because people with benefits have the government guaranteeing their rent will be paid while a productive member of society just wants a place to live to start a life on his own.

Say what you want about social programs....the U.S.A has implementing possibly the worst one imaginable, the ones who don't need it get it first and the ones who need it get shorted.

[Snusdog]

Back in the day....assistance was personal and accountable.....a local parish helped where help was needed.....but that help was more than just throwing money at the problem....it treated the person as a person......with dignity and expectations.........in our current society of individual rights....has anyone noticed....we have lost sight of the individual....in no age has the individual been more the focus.....and less obtainable than today.....we are more impersonal than anytime in history.......

And so it is.....that the government is to care for those in our community (who for all we know....... are little more than nameless faceless statistics).....and by doing so........our theoretical compassion never actually has to get involved with the difficulty and complexity of a life that is different than our own, that challenges our own comfort levels, and that asks us to sacrifice for a result that is hoped for but unguaranteed......

Yet we are so quick to laugh at the church (all because of a few knuckleheads that gamed the system......about the same percentage of knuckleheads gaming the banking and medical fields-- there will always be knuckleheads.....but their corruption does not negate the legitimacy of the system they corrupt.....in fact...... if anything....... it points to its viability)

Anyway........back in the day....the local parish dealt with the troubled souls among us.....and they did so as humans dealing with humans........not as nameless computers spiting out impersonal checks to nameless individuals.... the likes of whom the community never has to get involved with.....

Instead we met one on one............. and treated men with the dignity that said......you are worth our having expectations of you

So behind all the laughter and mocking....what exactly have you provided in its place.......dehumanized compassion?......cheep impersonal care?......a strategy of throwing money at a problem that is far more than financial in nature?.........please don't tell me the church has lost touch.....instead it would be better to say...... it asked of us too much

[squeezyjohn]

Snusdog ... that is the answer! No doubt about it ...

I would back the church who have historically done much good in the communities and continue to do so if there wasn't the constant passive-aggressive pressure accompanying any help given by religious organisations to convert your life to publicly adhering to a set of scientifically disproved fairy tales.

But what is needed is proper community ... without religious affiliation to the organisations involved. Because the majority of people here in the UK are non-believers. I don't see the will to help around me from most people who have been force fed a mantra of the capitalist machine for the whole of their lives - it's a kind of built in selfishness which appears to be hard to challenge without being shouted down. So if people aren't going to be left to rot who are truly in need, who's going to provide it if not the state?

I absolutely agree that any kind of state based benefits for people who slip through the net has to be held to account by the taxpayer - and any waste of the money through redundant bureaucracy and susceptibility to fraud should be challenged at every turn.

But simply to dismiss the need to get help to people who genuinely need it because the implementation is difficult is a very lazy way to address the argument - and I often see that attitude here. "I'm alright Jack - why don't you get out there and sort yourself out" doesn't solve the problem.

[trebli]

On top of that all that cash someone gives them they get unemployment/disability, then they have children like its a competition to collect more and those children are raised to learn that only those suckers work. Their mothers has a 13 chrysler 300 while their friends parents only have a 10 chrysler 200 and they work.....Mama sits at home and watches tv, drinks malt liqour has a card that provides her with all the food she wants and the government pays her rent on the house.

Here's a good one from my local paper. Desmond fathered 30 illegitimate children.


http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/ma...-over/?print=1

[sirloot]

Here's a good one from my local paper. Desmond fathered 30 illegitimate children.


http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/ma...-over/?print=1

Wow someone must have never been to sex ed class/know what birth control measures are or had parents that told them .. "Keep the big one out of the ditches and the lil one in ya britches"

[Thunder_Snus]

Here's a good one from my local paper. Desmond fathered 30 illegitimate children.


http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/ma...-over/?print=1

I remember reading about that. Tenn has the law where they can only take 50% for child support so some of the women only get like 1.50 a month. I think a better question is why these women keep sleeping with him. I understand 31 children by 31 different women but 31 by 9 or whatever? That's incredibly poor judgement on both sides. That article says he is "not allowed to comment on if they receive public assistance" which in other words means.....they receive public assistance.

You can bitch and argue all you want but if we are going to give handouts left and right it would be much more profitable to hire a dozen guys pay them an incredibly high salary and make sure that every single person receiving benefits needs them. It should all be on a case by case basis and if there is a contradiction it should be addressed again. Your article is a perfect example. Sorry if you had more than one child by this one and they weren't twins, you should be SOL, you are an idiot for having ANOTHER child with this man you knew could not provide for you. Anytime tobacco or alcohol shows up on your transaction history you should be cut off. If you live in a city where public transit is a very viable way to get around and you own a car, it should be taken away and sold in order to provide you with money instead of having a handout. All cash withdrawals must have a receipt to account for what it was spent on so that no drugs were purchased. If you can purchase drugs you can purchase shit on your own.

I am totally up for helping people when a mistake has been made. You made a shitty decision in the stock market, got behind on something or whatever but the typical things of buying a house you couldn't afford and the like are just ridiculous. I recently bought a car. The 320 or whatever a month was something I have never had scheduled every month so it took some adjustment. I had to make a few stupid amazon purchase sacrifices but it wasn't that difficult. Noone should have bailed me out had i not been able to make my payment and thats just how it is. Help should be given when: You live in something below a comfortable way of life, you have to sleep under 16 ratty blankets to stay warm and you have no heat or something, you can't afford the BARE ESSENTIALS to keep you ALIVE bread milk rice, cheap shit that is both cheap and provides you nutrition. Sure that is help worthy. When you have an expensive car and can't afford these things though thats just ridiculous. I should not pay you money to feed your family because you decided to buy a mercedes. I should not pay for you to get by because you decided to have more children. It seems like a taboo subject and I never understand why. The people with 15 children that "need help" you didn't NEED 15 children. In fact its kind of selfish that you had them and then asked for help to raise them. Noone forced you to. You do not die if you do not have children.

I guess before I ramble on further, it should just be said. You need to pretty much be at rock bottom before you get help. You need to have no means of getting money in order to sustain your life. You can't have a 400k house you can't afford because you could buy the 200k house and feed your family. The american dream is that, a dream. Not everyone can have what they want. I can't have a chocolate fountain that shits large breasted women and SUV's unless I can actually afford it. And just because my neighbor has it doesn't mean i DESERVE it.

[Snusdog]

Snusdog ... that is the answer! No doubt about it ...

I would back the church who have historically done much good in the communities and continue to do so if there wasn't the constant passive-aggressive pressure accompanying any help given by religious organisations to convert your life to publicly adhering to a set of scientifically disproved fairy tales.

But what is needed is proper community ... without religious affiliation to the organisations involved. Because the majority of people here in the UK are non-believers. I don't see the will to help around me from most people who have been force fed a mantra of the capitalist machine for the whole of their lives - it's a kind of built in selfishness which appears to be hard to challenge without being shouted down. So if people aren't going to be left to rot who are truly in need, who's going to provide it if not the state?

I absolutely agree that any kind of state based benefits for people who slip through the net has to be held to account by the taxpayer - and any waste of the money through redundant bureaucracy and susceptibility to fraud should be challenged at every turn.

But simply to dismiss the need to get help to people who genuinely need it because the implementation is difficult is a very lazy way to address the argument - and I often see that attitude here. "I'm alright Jack - why don't you get out there and sort yourself out" doesn't solve the problem.

I think that help should be given without any strings attached….I don’t value you only because you agree with me….instead…. I value you because you ARE valuable

That said my reason for valuing you is specific and concrete…..I would say inherent to who you are….. And therefore, if you ask me why I am doing all this……I can articulate it.

We should not mistake articulation for manipulation. In fact, we should desire, seek, and respect the first while avoiding the second.

Regardless…….the hope I have for you (and me) is something I am willing to share if asked…….it is the basis for what I do and why….…..but forcing it on you is not necessary for the actuality of that hope or my acting on it. It simply is the case for what I do

SJ the only point at which I would disagree with you in all of this is what I would suggest is a naïve statement that faith has been scientifically disproven. At best science can only address “how” what is came to be……it cannot nor does it pretend to attempt to say “why” it came to be……..and knowing the one does not relegate the other to a “soft science”

In all his brilliance Aristotle never asked the obvious question ….why is there something instead of nothing?

Be careful not to dismiss one question due to the success we have had in answering the other……the one does not negate the other…..and the certainty of one is never quite as certain as we would like it to seem.

Case in point: we can describe man with scientific precision……but why is it that we cannot heal him…….an honest admission must serve to sober our modern self-estimation….and in the end suggest a potential way forward

Old dudes were smart…..they held their world together through plague and famine….and that must never be dismissed as a small matter at all

[wa3zrm]

[truthwolf1]

Stealing is stealing. butzs I ges Wulmarts ohd us@#$ becuz of doz bankazs


50 grand a year will buy a lot a beer if this is true!

It pays not to work: Hawaii residents receive highest welfare benefits in US
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/it-pay...fits-in-us/123

[trebli]

Quote from the article: "Tanner said there are 126 separate welfare programs funded by the federal government, 72 of which provide either cash or in-kind benefits to individuals. That’s on top of state and local program to help those with lower incomes."


Hey, I think I am going to move to Hawaii!

[NeonMouse]

I dont think any one is really happy when their on benefits. With work normally comes self-esteem, social contact and generally something to do. The only ones that are happy are doing cash in hand.

Having no job can lead to alcholism, drug abuse, mental health problems, low self esteem.

But sure it is a tad easier to live your life in such a way when rent gets paid that would usually be the majority of your monthly paycheck if you had a job. living costs are through the roof now in the uk, having a job will never pay until they raise the minimum wage and curb inflation.

Personally their needs to be more investment in keeping people sane when they are out of work and eventually getting them back to work which just isnt happening in the uk due to all the austerity cuts. Its going to be an endless cycle. The majority of people who have recently found work are working part time or on zero-hour contracts and are living life below the breadline.

[Thunder_Snus]

I dont think any one is really happy when their on benefits. With work normally comes self-esteem, social contact and generally something to do. The only ones that are happy are doing cash in hand.

Having no job can lead to alcholism, drug abuse, mental health problems, low self esteem.

But sure it is a tad easier to live your life in such a way when rent gets paid that would usually be the majority of your monthly paycheck if you had a job. living costs are through the roof now in the uk, having a job will never pay until they raise the minimum wage and curb inflation.

Personally their needs to be more investment in keeping people sane when they are out of work and eventually getting them back to work which just isnt happening in the uk due to all the austerity cuts. Its going to be an endless cycle. The majority of people who have recently found work are working part time or on zero-hour contracts and are living life below the breadline.

Most people in the U.S are not working because their parents didn't so the concept of working is very confusing to them because they can make more money by not working.
They live with different moral values. Self esteem is not built on hard work for a low wage, it is built on seeing how much you can accumulate in monthly benefits, the higher you get the more successful you are. Yes most of these people that are on welfare and other programs that dont need the help usually do have alcoholism, drug abuse, or mental problems. They learned from the same people that taught them working is for suckers. Sell crack, collect benefits, sleep.

[wa3zrm]

[Frosted]

There's 7.3% of the US population on unemployment benefits which I grant you is a larger problem than the UK.
A lot of those people would be genuinely either mentally or physically disabled so you could discount those...and granted you'll have quite a few professional lifestyle benefit claimers but doing my research here, there are a heck of a lot of people in the US that genuinely cannot find work.