Who are you supporting in the upcoming American election

[Dead Rabbit]

Well, I didn't pick an option because I need one that says

I'm not American but hate both/would vote 3rd party

:lol: Obama can talk in politically seductive tones, but his policies are the same nonsense that hasn't changed in decades. McCain is simply psychologically unfit to lead and had demonstrated that he is little more than a puppet for the neoconservatives. America is screwed either way. I feel for you guys.

Yeah, you’re right! I should have put that in my poll. The sad thing is I must have looked at it a dozen times checking if I covered all plausible choices.

Dude, where do you get off thinking McCain is mentally ill? Honestly, diss him for being a neo-con, Bush stooge etc. Something political. But, you’re just stereotyping him with the whole “military war vet” is crazy motif. Lame and dare I argue not very eloquent.

[Zero]

I mean to say that he displays shocking incidents of broken logic, fuzzy thinking, confusion, and all manner of other mental glitches, any of which would scare me to find at the helm of the world's largest army.

[Link]

On healthcare: Like a buddy of mine says, If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it is free.


Zero,
On the USA's nosey Government: The USA as a government probably cares more about helping countries in need than its own citizens who make up the government.

And the implication that there's an underlying interest is tue, but not what you have blanket stated.

First, the world DOES expect the USA to play a lead role in things which involve aid because we are a very prosperous country and second, the USA is a country which has been founded on respect for all individual human beings and the diversity such brings.

Who was called upon to donate when the muslisms in indonesia got blasted from the earthquake? Yeah, we weren't the only ones giving, but this example shows you the good will the USA has despite the current climate. Those peoples Govts. could care less, the same Govts. that will then turn around and scream imperalism with one hand out.

When you are the top or one of the top dawgs, everyone is gunning for you, plain and simple.
What a croc of shit it all is. Other countries have the gull to act and speak as if we are trying to dominate the world. Please, If we were the imperialsts we are constantly accused of, we'd be more similar to Germany of the late 30's and 40's.

Personally, I'd like for the USA to become more of an isolationist country because no matter how much you try to help other people by raising world standards, there's people like you who'd rather accuse instead of looking at the big picture.

[Dead Rabbit]

I mean to say that he displays shocking incidents of broken logic, fuzzy thinking, confusion, and all manner of other mental glitches, any of which would scare me to find at the helm of the world's largest army.

examples?

[kidstaxi]

I mean to say that he displays shocking incidents of broken logic, fuzzy thinking, confusion, and all manner of other mental glitches, any of which would scare me to find at the helm of the world's largest army.

I did not know McCain was running for President of China. Seeing that they have the world's largest army.

[Slydel]

Crap!! That is all I have to say. U.S. politics is crap. Can I get $50 million for having a convention for my new party: Government for the People by the People? Don't people realize that we have seen the results of communism (USSR), the results of socialism (most of Europe), the results of socialized healthcare (Canada) and they don't even work!! We keep pushing our country towards these other types of political systems, yet they are all failures!!! The Republican and Democratic nominees are both worthless choices. Europe has extremely high unemployment, Canada has a shitty healthcare system which everyone pays in way too much, and shall I mention the USSR? Maybe we should try a benevolent dictatorship or a kakistocracy? Why should I not be pissed off? More than half of my two figure income is spent towards the following: Federal, state, local, property, and sales tax. Even more is spent on health insurance and my gambling addiction called my 401k. Besides, when I save money I am taxed on the interest income from it (which is below the rate of inflation because the Fed Reserve is screwing us). I should become one of those pot-smoking, no-job-holding, Playstation-3-playing fathers so my many girlfriends can take care of me a night a week while they buy me a forty ounce of beer.

[Zero]

I mean to say that he displays shocking incidents of broken logic, fuzzy thinking, confusion, and all manner of other mental glitches, any of which would scare me to find at the helm of the world's largest army.

I did not know McCain was running for President of China. Seeing that they have the world's largest army.

Perhaps I should have said "military" - it is certainly the most powerful military, at any rate.

[snusjus]

I am voting Socialist Party for the 2008 election... and no, I'm not from Europe! However, I prefer the way how Europe is run (Democratic-Socialism). Sweden and Norway have the highest standards of living out of all the countries in the world.... and they snus!

[Starcadia]

Edited. I'm taking my comments back. A little harsh on one particular side, which would be small-minded of me. :roll:

[Mongrul]

The votes so far indicate that we snus lovers are a diverse bunch! Which is great, anything that unites people is a good thing, even if it's an addictive product. For us in the USA, it's a much safer product that should be accessible in every store (which it's not) , and for you in the EU, where it's banned in most parts, you'd benefit from less gov regulation! Tell those nanny state, non-elected, bureauweenie, Nazi storm trooping bureaucrats to go to ****ing hell!! What the is wrong with you dumbasses!! Why do you put up with non-elected, totally corrupt assholes telling you what you can and can't do? Screw the government, screw all governments that oppress the people and/or decide to Kill over 100 million (Thanks Commies) for the good of the elite party members? Wake the **** up and read your history books you ****ing MORONS...and screw the rest of the low life scum sucking cockroaches who don't want to work and think it's ok to suck off the tits of hard working people who actually care about their countries......oops, almost went off on a rant there, I apologize everyone. Point is....everyone has on opinion...just like everyone has an asshole...stinks, but serves a purpose in the right place (over a toilet). I hope this place can stay civil, and even though we may disagree on politics, we can agree on one thing.....SNUS!! May freedom loving people be freed to disperse this great stuff in any way, to anywhere, as often as needed. My fear here in the US is that our home grown Nazi's (we call them Democrats) will figure out what we're doing and try to stop our shipments so they can leach more taxes out of us!! ...I feel another rant coming on....time for bed.

[Starcadia]

The votes so far indicate...

Sounds like global whining, methinks. :wink:

On a practical note, you might want to read up on fascism, because what you usually get under a Republican regime, especially under someone like George W. Bush, is very similar to fascism. It's that sort of misinformed belief that gets us into wars like the one we're currently in, and causes painful facepalms all across the left.

[TBD]

The votes so far indicate...

Sounds like global whining, methinks. :wink:

On a practical note, you might want to read up on fascism, because what you usually get under a Republican regime, especially under someone like George W. Bush, is very similar to fascism. It's that sort of misinformed belief that gets us into wars like the one we're currently in, and causes painful facepalms all across the left.

I am pretty good on history, I know that fascism is a product of the LEFT side of the political spectrum. I am so sick and tired of people trying to rewrite history and claim that fascism is on the right. The two biggest fascist states were Italy and Germany. Both of the controlling parties had Socialist in their name. The only way fascism is on the right is that it is right of Communism. You can bash Bush all you want, but understand he is NOT right of center. The only thing he is conservative about is maybe national defense and taxes, although it is hard to say that when the $ that he and Congress has spent has went up for 8 years. Bush and his ilk are middle left, not far right. If he was truly far right we would have policies that would make Ron Paul (and a lot of us true conservatives) happy.
America has forsaken her roots. Small Government, limited Federal Power, reliance on individual effort. We have become a nanny state, where many DEMAND someone else solve their problems and someone else pay for their failures or laziness.

I really like this board, we disagree on many things, but are connected by our enjoyment of tobacco. In the grand scheme of existence, politics are a minor thing. I feel that there are WAY more important things to focus on. Politics, especially American politics have a way of self correcting. Sure, it may take a revolution or two, but....

[Zero]

^ This post only demonstrates how much distortion in terms there has really been over the years. Left and Right wing are not sufficient to describe any political stance, really, and in our modern times they mean almost nothing. It was originally coined to differentiate the Whigs (liberals) and Tories (conservatives) in the British Parliament - the Whigs sat on the left of the house and the Tories sat on the right. There is really nothing more to the terms than this - they are not descriptive or complete in any sense of the word.

Republicanism, for example, fits the definition of what traditionally was known as "liberalism" - the philosophies of laissez-faire, Adam Smith, etc. The idea was that people should be free to choose how they employ their labour and with whom they engage in economic transactions.

But the Republican party now backs economic policies which are indeed very much like those effected by Hitler and Mussolini. The core of economic Fascism is a triumvirate of power - big business (corporations), big labour (trade unions/guilds), and big government conspire to direct the productive factors of the nation into an economy of their choosing. In the case of Germany and Italy, this was the great welfare/warfare state. It depends on heavy stratification of society into a managerial class which directs production and a labour class which is, more or less, left with little choice about what sort of profession they would like to engage in.

This has been a change long in the works and, really, as far back as the great depression. During the cold war, both parties, Republican and Democrats, supported policies, some of which could be viewed as "left" wing and some as "right" wing. Consider Kennedy's tax cut - something which would be considered rather "right" wing today, but which would be more in line with classical liberalism. This while he was a member of the "left" wing party. But then he also tried to strong-arm big steel into wage and price controls in an effort to "stabilise" the economy - something right out of the pages of National Socialism or Musollini's Fascism.

Here's a great lecture by Joseph Salerno on the topic of Fascism and economic policy in the US.

<embed src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-8033183214725164875&hl=en&fs=true" width=640 height=480> </embed>

[kidstaxi]

^ There is no need to watch a video from Salerno. I assume since you are a Canadian in the UK, you don't know of his reputation in the U.S.

Mr. Salerno would be what many people would call a "Left Wing Nut". It would not matter if the Republican party was chopping the heads off of baby ducks, or feeding every straving person in the world. He would give some kind of speech saying it was fascist, racist, or a plan from little green men from Mars.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have better reputations than this guy. You would get a better response if you posted a video of a Mork and Mindy rerun.

[Zero]

The USA as a government probably cares more about helping countries in need than its own citizens who make up the government.

Based on what evidence? I see the US having been instrumental in overthrowing democratically elected governments of dozens of countries. I see the US having funded and trained militias and terrorists to stimulate chaos in countries they had an interest in controlling. I see the US being the aggressor, time and time again, starting wars from which major US industries gain extremely lucrative public infrastructure contracts. The examples of random aid gifts (ie: post-Tsunami) are inconsequential when you factor them in against the bottom line. I can only wish that one day the US government becomes what its citizens largely and erroneously believe it to be.

First, the world DOES expect the USA to play a lead role in things which involve aid because we are a very prosperous country and second, the USA is a country which has been founded on respect for all individual human beings and the diversity such brings.

I agree it was founded on those principles, but it has been about a hundred years since the government has acted in accordance with those principles.

Please, If we were the imperialsts we are constantly accused of, we'd be more similar to Germany of the late 30's and 40's.

The Bush family was very supportive of Hitler and his policies. Bush Senior's father was, in fact, subject to legal proceedings after the Union Banking Corporation scandal during WWII. Bush was one of seven on the board of directors who supplied Hitler with between 1/4 and 1/3 of the raw materials used during wartime (heavy steel plate, piping, wiring, pig iron, etc). They were all charged under the Trading With the Enemy act. It's not the whole government which is at fault - most of the US government is benign. They are just there to collect their pay and raise their hand now and again. This leaves the actual decision making very much open to the manipulations of a powerful minority in the government. A review of history can be quite illuminating.

Personally, I'd like for the USA to become more of an isolationist country because no matter how much you try to help other people by raising world standards, there's people like you who'd rather accuse instead of looking at the big picture.

But what is the big picture? Simply having good intentions is not enough - I can intend to do all the good in the world and still cause a catastrophe. The problem is with methods. If I give the US administration the benefit of the doubt - to trust that they actually intend to do good rather than intend to control under the guise of doing good - then they have been an abject failure. The only way to say that the US has been successful is to assume that their goal all along has been to draw otherwise free peoples into their economic sphere - making them something of a "client state" which furnishes raw materials and labour and which exports higher order goods for the consumption of America's industry and population. It's this forcible turning of countries into "employees" of a sort which is distasteful.