420 Use and Health

[sgreger1]

I will concede that you have to be susceptible to severe mental illness, ie you need to have the schizophrenic gene, to develop the disease. You need the right (wrong..) type of brain, scans have shown that the structure of people's brains with the disease (note not before) is different to the typical brain. Causality is a whole section of Philosophy, and I won't bore you with it. Sufficed to say that cannabis may have been a Sufficient (but maybe not Necessary) cause of my disease (meaning it would constitute a trigger). I gather that using cannabis whilst the brain is developing - even up to your teens or early twenties - can change its structure permenantly.

Well I can't really argue with any of that. There is research showing that smoking it in your early teens can cause structural changes, though we aren't entirely sure what the ramifications of those changes are, and I agree that cannabis could easily be catagorized as a trigger for those already predisposed to having episodes of acute psychosis, schizophrenia etc. The thing that sucks about TRUE schizophrenics too is that they are unaware that they are schizophrenics, they literally lack the ability to recognize their own condition and this leads to them seeking destructive behavior in an attempt to self medicate. My wife's brother is a SERIOUS schizo and he has gone so downhill in recent years. He just self medicates with cannabis and smokes cigs like a freaking chimney, but also got into crystal meth and is mainly living on the street now since we can't keep him chained to the house.

I am glad that you don't have anything that severe vulpes, as I have seen first hand how much suffering something like schizophrenia or psychosis can cause.

PSA: If anyone here is younger and thinks they may have any sort of mental issues, definately do not smoke cannabis or drink alcohol for that matter, it only makes it worse.

Tobacco however, is very good for schizophrenia. I won't post all the research links, cos I've done it on several occasions. Probably nicotine specifically, improves cognition, attention and memory, sensory gating (being able to filter out all the background noise (that non-schizophrenics do naturally)), and improves negative symptoms like mood and apathy.

And snus is a safe way of getting my dose

Yah tobacco (nicotene really) is definately great for people with any level of schizophrenia. My wife's brother smokes like a damn chimmney, chain smoking packs and packs of smokes each day. I tell the guy to use snus, I even bought him an ecig once but he refuses. I just think of that much smoke in the lungs and want to throw up, I wish more people would understand the beauty of snus!

[Reynard]

I wish more people would understand the beauty of snus!

You and me both! Spread the word! Hehe

[sgreger1]

That's a bit glib mate

Which part, the part about the girlfriend? Yah it was weird, she had started acting funny for about a month prior to this, but I figured it was just normal teenage girl acting crazy stuff, then I caught her mom telling her to take some medication at some point but she wouldn't tell me what it was. Then we did shrooms (which her mother approved off since we asked her first) and about a week after that she started getting really crazy to the point where we broke up. Then she immediately was admitted to a mental institution where she ultimately became a lesbian and is pretty ****ed up to this day. I was young at the time, but looking back on it, I don't understand why her mom would not have been like "lol NO YOU CAN NOT DO SHROOMS WITH YOUR TEENAGE BOYFRIEND, you are a schizophrenic!". Apparently she had been giving my gf the medication for it and so she was obviously aware of her mental issues, I just can't fathom as a father ever telling my daughter "Oh yah that's cool, go do some drugs with your teenage boyfriend that's totally legit". ESPECIALLY if I knew she had an underlying mental condition.

[Reynard]

Which part, the part about the girlfriend? Yah it was weird, she had started acting funny for about a month prior to this, but I figured it was just normal teenage girl acting crazy stuff, then I caught her mom telling her to take some medication at some point but she wouldn't tell me what it was. Then we did shrooms (which her mother approved off since we asked her first) and about a week after that she started getting really crazy to the point where we broke up. Then she immediately was admitted to a mental institution where she ultimately became a lesbian and is pretty ****ed up to this day. I was young at the time, but looking back on it, I don't understand why her mom would not have been like "lol NO YOU CAN NOT DO SHROOMS WITH YOUR TEENAGE BOYFRIEND, you are a schizophrenic!". Apparently she had been giving my gf the medication for it and so she was obviously aware of her mental issues, I just can't fathom as a father ever telling my daughter "Oh yah that's cool, go do some drugs with your teenage boyfriend that's totally legit". ESPECIALLY if I knew she had an underlying mental condition.

I wouldn't called her ****ed up, I'd call her ill.

[Skell18]

I wouldn't called her ****ed up, I'd call her ill.

Sounds like her mother is ****ed up for knowingly allowing her to take mushrooms!

[Reynard]

Sounds like her mother is ****ed up for knowingly allowing her to take mushrooms!

That sounds about right! Lol

[Reynard]

I am glad that you don't have anything that severe vulpes, as I have seen first hand how much suffering something like schizophrenia or psychosis can cause.

Each day is a struggle, I think I'm the Antichrist half the time. You haven't seen **** first hand, try walking a mile in my shoes.

And just because I'm lucid and eluquent doesn't mean I'm not a TRUE schizophrenic, as you insinuate. How dare you downgrade my experience. I'm well medicated, I tried coming off my meds - it's not pretty.

Edit: I removed a section that was quite personal and written in the heat of the moment.

[Frosted]

I wouldn't called her ****ed up, I'd call her ill.

Absoloutely right.

[Frosted]

Each day is a struggle, I think I'm the Antichrist half the time. You haven't seen **** first hand, try walking a mile in my shoes.

And just because I'm lucid and eluquent doesn't mean I'm not a TRUE schizophrenic, as you insinuate. How dare you downgrade my experience. I'm well medicated, I tried coming off my meds - it's not pretty.

The only reason you're even arguing the toss over this is because you're a pothead. Try eating an apple, or going for a jog, or praying. Something wholesome.

You have been wrong on a few issues here Sgreger. You are talking to someone with the illness here (Vulpes) and I understand everything that Vulpes is saying. He's absoloutely correct.
There are different forms of schizophrenia and different levels of it but it's still schizophrenia and it's still debilitating to themselves and family/friends.

It's a no brainer that people who suffer this should stay away from any self medication apart from tobacco but getting them not to self medicate is another story. Professional help is essential.

[Reynard]

I want to retract the last paragraph of my previous post, as it's quite personal, and for that, Sgregor, I apologise sincerely. I understand that cannabis can be used in parallel with other wholesome ways of life, and that it even has (and there is no debate here) medicinal uses. I don't want to upset you with comments made in the heat of the moment.

I hope you can understand that these arguments are not a dry debate for me, and my opinions on cannabis are deeply entrenched in over a decade of various incarnations of misery. I'm lucky to still be alive, on many counts.

[sgreger1]

Each day is a struggle, I think I'm the Antichrist half the time. You haven't seen **** first hand, try walking a mile in my shoes.

And just because I'm lucid and eluquent doesn't mean I'm not a TRUE schizophrenic, as you insinuate. How dare you downgrade my experience. I'm well medicated, I tried coming off my meds - it's not pretty.

Edit: I removed a section that was quite personal and written in the heat of the moment.

Whoah vulpes I am deeply sorry that you misinterpreted my post (or rather my poor choice of words), I did not in ANY way meant to downgrade your experience at all, and I deeply apologize if it came off that way. I simply ment that you come off as completely intelligent and mentally indistinguishable from your non-ill counterparts here on the forum, whereas my brother in law is 100% all the time bat-shit out of his mind crazy, without a single 5 minute break anywhere in-between. I didn't in any way mean to make it seem like you weren't a "real" schizophrenic or anything and I'm sorry for my choice of words, I just ment that compared to him you are worlds apart (at least from what I can perceive through your written text, I have no insight into your daily struggles).

Again, I really did not mean to be offensive and am really sorry if I came off that way. I'm shooting these messages off at work in-between tasks so I am not putting as much thought into them as I should be.

As for the whole arguing because i'm a pothead thing, I do not smoke cannabis and can not smoke cannabis because it gives me extreme anxiety, and just like cannabis triggered your condition which you now live with, I believe cannabis triggered my anxiety condition which has me in the ER at least once per year thinking I am dying of heart attack or stroke. I smoked when I was younger, and then stopped for many years, then my Dr prescribed it to me (ironically for anxiety since the pills weren't working) and it quickly became apparent that cannabis was making it worse and even exacerbating it so I promptly stopped and found a new doctor. I am not an advocate for smoking weed, but rather an advocate for facts and the freedom to do what one pleases. I didn't mean to argue, just stating that as far as research can tell, marijuana does not CAUSE the problems you or I face, but rather triggers and exacerbates them to various degrees. That was all I was trying to say.

As for eating an apple, I grow my own veggies in large quantities and bike for 20-30 miles a week, on top of usually bicycling to and from work, plus I walk for 1 hour every day at lunch time. This is all in an effort to help lower my blood pressure and help me sleep/relieve my anxiety. I do not smoke pot, and only drink about 2-4 glasses of wine or beer per week at most while having dinner. I'm doin my best to be healthy here, but the greasy mexican food is just too delicious Vulpes, I can't help myself

[Frosted]

I never knew that a member of my family was diagnosed 20 years ago. I only found out last week. He's extremely coherent and intelligent.

[sgreger1]

You have been wrong on a few issues here Sgreger. You are talking to someone with the illness here (Vulpes) and I understand everything that Vulpes is saying. He's absoloutely correct.
There are different forms of schizophrenia and different levels of it but it's still schizophrenia and it's still debilitating to themselves and family/friends.

It's a no brainer that people who suffer this should stay away from any self medication apart from tobacco but getting them not to self medicate is another story. Professional help is essential.

I am wrong all the time, as I am only human. I did not mean to downgrade her illness, I actually meant it as a compliment in that my brother in law is so advanced in his level of schizophrenia that he is not even aware of his condition and really can't even be helped at this point as he will forcibly break out of whatever institution he is sent to. We have sent him to every rehab, mental facility etc from here to the Phillipines (literally) and he doesn't even realize he has an issue so it is hard to keep him off the streets or off crystal meth. Vulpes on the other hand is an intelligent poster on this forum who is at least lucid of her ailment and appears on the surface to be very normal (obviously I have no insight into the private life of Vulpes so I wouldn't know what his personal strugles are). On top of that he is able to stay on her medications, which my brother in law couldn't do in a trillion years even if they were shoved down his throught he would throw them up since he doens't believe he is sick. It was for this reason that I was saying that there are different levels of schizophrenia and that a true (bad choice of words, should have been high level) schizophrenic isn't even aware of their condition as they are not mentally capable of being lucid to their own illness. I did not mean it as an insult and rather ment to say that Vulpes comes off as totally normal on the forums, which I think we would all agree with.

[sgreger1]

I never knew that a member of my family was diagnosed 20 years ago. I only found out last week. He's extremely coherent and intelligent.

Schizophrenia is pretty common, I too have more than one person who is close to my family who has this ailment. For the ones that are lucid of the illness and able to take medications, it is usually controlled so it wouldn't surprise me that someone could slip by for 20 years without anyone noticing. My wife's best friend is schizophrenic (amongst other things) and I never would have known if she didn't tell me. On the other end of the spectrum, it can be such an ugly illness that destroys the lives of people who would otherwise be coherent and intelligent individuals. I wish you all could see my brother in law, just in the last 4 years he went from being able to come in and out of being normal, to now where he is so fully entrenched in the disease that he is just unable to be controlled and lives mainly on the street despite having a house to live in if he wanted to. Like autism, schizophrenia can range from slightly incapacitating to completely debilitating. I am just thankfull that Vulpes and your family member appear to be closer to the former, and are at least able to live their lives to some extent and keep it controlled with medication. I could not imagine the struggles someone with a complicated ailment like that goes through, from what I gathered from close friends who have it, it is not a happy experience.

[Reynard]

SGreger,

There's no need to apologise, I just hope you can understand why there is passion in my writing. I suppose I've learned to despise cannabis, probably as a mechanism of self defence. Though, you may have preconceptions of how schizophrenics should 'act' or 'seem', and you expect that all schizophrenics should be in acute phase. We are mostly not, and most of us are capable of acting and communicating fairly reasonably (whilst entertaining notions like 'I am the third horseman of the apocalypse'...lol)

I do feel sorry for your bro-in-law mate, I hope he gets better. Sounds like he's in a bad place.

Sorry you have anxiety problems. What coping strategies do you use? I love my qigong meditation, it's great for stress, I'd recommend it

I'm doin my best to be healthy here, but the greasy mexican food is just too delicious Vulpes, I can't help myself

Haha very drole