420 Use and Health

[snusgetter]

Marijuana is good for you!

B U T ... does it cause oral cancer??


Let us hope Kkingery83's hubby doesn't meet MJ ... the forums will heat up then!!

[Crow]

United States

NORML Attorneys file multiple constitutional challenges to federal medical marijuana crackdown

NORML Attorneys Matt Kumin, David Michael, and Alan Silber, have filed suit (read here) in the four federal districts in California to challenge the Obama Administration’s recent crackdown on medical marijuana operations in the Golden State. Aided by expert testimony from NORML Deputy Director Paul Armentano and research from California NORML Director Dale Gieringer, the suits seek an injunction against the recent federal intrusion into state medical marijuana laws at least and at most a declaration of the unconstitutionality of the Controlled Substances Act with respect to state regulation of medical marijuana.

The NORML attorneys allege the federal government has engaged in entrapment of California patients and their caregivers. They point to the courts’ dismissal of County of Santa Cruz, WAMM et al. v. Eric Holder et al. where the Department of Justice (DOJ) “promised a federal judge that it had changed its policy toward the enforcement of its federal drug laws relative to California medical cannabis patients.” So after 2009, California providers had reason to believe that the federal government had changed its policy. The legal argument is called ‘judicial estoppel’, which basically means that courts can’t hold true to a fact in one case and then disregard it in another.

Kumin, Michael, and Silber also argue the government has engaged in ‘equitable estoppel’, which most people commonly think of as ‘entrapment’. That is to say, you can’t bust a person for committing a crime when the authorities told him it wasn’t a crime to do it!

Under established principles of estoppel and particularly in the context of the defense of estoppel by entrapment, defendants to a criminal action are protected and should not be prosecuted if they have reasonably relied on statements from the government indicating that their conduct is not unlawful. That principle should be applied to potential defendants as well, the plaintiffs in this action. Such parties, courts have noted, are “person[s] sincerely desirous of obeying the law”. They “accepted the information as true and [were]…not on notice to make further inquiries.” - U.S. v. Weitzenhoff, 1 F. 3d 1523, 1534 (9th Cir. 1993)

The US Constitution figures prominently in the legal challenge as well. The 9th Amendment says that “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” The NORML attorneys argue that threatening seizure of property and criminal sanctions violates the rights of the people to “consult with their doctors about their bodies and health.”

The 10th Amendment provides that “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” The NORML attorneys argue that the States have the “primary plenary power to protect the health of its citizens” and since the government has recognized and not attempted to stop Colorado’s state-run medical marijuana dispensary program, it cannot suggest Colorado has a state’s right that California does not.

The 14th Amendment says that all citizens have equal protection under the law. The NORML attorneys argue that the federal government:

1. Actively provides cannabis for medical purposes to individuals through its own IND program.
2. Actively allows patients in Colorado to access medical cannabis through a state-licensing system that allows individuals to make profit from the sales of medical cannabis.
3. Actively restricts scientific research into the medical value and use of cannabis to alleviate human suffering and pain.

Thus, according to Kumin, Michael, and Silber, the government can’t be allowing Colorado medical marijuana commerce, engaging it its own IND program that mails 300 joints a month to four federal medical marijuana patients yet squelching all attempts to study medical value of marijuana, then have a rational basis for shutting down medical marijuana dispensaries in California. Under the 14th Amendment, the feds can’t treat Californians differently than Coloradoans and differently than four US citizens who get legal federal medical marijuana.

Finally, while acknowledging that Raich v. Gonzales 545 US 1 (2005) set the precedent that the Constitution’s Interstate Commerce Clause does allow the feds to prosecute California’s medical marijuana, the NORML attorneys argue:

…it is still difficult to imagine that marijuana grown only in California, pursuant to California State law, and distributed only within California, only to California residents holding state-issued cards, and only for medical purposes, can be subject to federal regulation pursuant to the Commerce Clause. For that reason, Plaintiffs preserve the issue for further Supreme Court review, if necessary and deemed appropriate.

We will keep you posted on all updates related to this groundbreaking lawsuit. Archive of our interview with the lead attorneys in this case is available in our “Audio/Video” section on The NORML Network.

Click here to join NORML today and help us in the fight to legalize marijuana.

[desirexe]

I actually just ran into a pleasant surprise outside of Walmart! For once it wasn't boyscouts selling popcorn or girlscouts selling cookies, it was a pro-med mj guy trying to get people to sign a petition for legalization, I think. I admit that I didn't stop and chat, my kid was with me and he is impatient. But it made me realize and perhaps this has been mentioned here before, (I am too impatient to read through 22 pages)...but would people make such a big fuss if say, Astra Zeneca or one of those big pharma co's were to put pot into a pill and market that??? It seems to me, an outsider, I have nothing really against or for complete legalization, that people get all pissy about marijuana because of the current way it is used...the bongs and bowls and blunts...I dunno, if I had to use the stuff, I am not sure I'd like smoking it...but in pill form or brownie form and if it could replace my oxycottons!!!??? Sign me up! At the same time, I know people enjoy the different varieties, just as snus/snuff users enjoy different strains of tobacco, so with that said, I am not against the smoking of it, just thinking more people might climb onboard if pill form was proposed..From the very little I read on this topic I am no idiot, I can see the beneficial aspect of mj, but others need to see this too, sadly it seems many people only trust pills & big pharm though..

[Crow]

I dunno, if I had to use the stuff, I am not sure I'd like smoking it...but in pill form or brownie form and if it could replace my oxycottons!!!??? Sign me up!

Medical cannabis is available in many forms: pills (capsules), edibles (food and drink), topicals (cremes and lotions), and so on.

[BadAxe]

I actually just ran into a pleasant surprise outside of Walmart! For once it wasn't boyscouts selling popcorn or girlscouts selling cookies, it was a pro-med mj guy trying to get people to sign a petition for legalization, I think. I admit that I didn't stop and chat, my kid was with me and he is impatient. But it made me realize and perhaps this has been mentioned here before, (I am too impatient to read through 22 pages)...but would people make such a big fuss if say, Astra Zeneca or one of those big pharma co's were to put pot into a pill and market that??? It seems to me, an outsider, I have nothing really against or for complete legalization, that people get all pissy about marijuana because of the current way it is used...the bongs and bowls and blunts...I dunno, if I had to use the stuff, I am not sure I'd like smoking it...but in pill form or brownie form and if it could replace my oxycottons!!!??? Sign me up! At the same time, I know people enjoy the different varieties, just as snus/snuff users enjoy different strains of tobacco, so with that said, I am not against the smoking of it, just thinking more people might climb onboard if pill form was proposed..From the very little I read on this topic I am no idiot, I can see the beneficial aspect of mj, but others need to see this too, sadly it seems many people only trust pills & big pharm though..

They do have it in pill form. Unfortunately, Big Pharma also created marinol, a synthetic substance, that has side effects. ANd they love to point ot Marinol and tell you whats bad about pot. But real pot pills are made by people everyday. For recreational purposes, I love smoking/vaping. The taste and the process is aprt of the recreational enjoyment for me. So I would never want my recreational high to just come from a pill. I could do chemicals for that. But for medicianl purposes i can totally understand wanting a pill or an edible, and yes, those are readily available.

Not sure why you take Oxy's, but yes, put in a pill form or edible form can really help with pain, and could possibly lead to replacing your addictive chemicals. I would look into that if I were you. I rarely take pain pills for anything. A couple cookies and I am feeling much more relaxed with reduced pain. I get better pain relief from MJ when eating edibles, then from smoking or vaping. Vaping is just my recreational choice. Edibles are my medicinal choice.

[Crow]

[desirexe]

They do have it in pill form. Unfortunately, Big Pharma also created marinol, a synthetic substance, that has side effects. ANd they love to point ot Marinol and tell you whats bad about pot. But real pot pills are made by people everyday. For recreational purposes, I love smoking/vaping. The taste and the process is aprt of the recreational enjoyment for me. So I would never want my recreational high to just come from a pill. I could do chemicals for that. But for medicianl purposes i can totally understand wanting a pill or an edible, and yes, those are readily available.

Not sure why you take Oxy's, but yes, put in a pill form or edible form can really help with pain, and could possibly lead to replacing your addictive chemicals. I would look into that if I were you. I rarely take pain pills for anything. A couple cookies and I am feeling much more relaxed with reduced pain. I get better pain relief from MJ when eating edibles, then from smoking or vaping. Vaping is just my recreational choice. Edibles are my medicinal choice.

Oxys were just for after-surgery and I only took them for a week. I would have loved to try mj in any form just for the experience and to see first hand if it reduced my pain. I would have preferred to have skipped the percs, they made me itchy as hell!! I had to choose between itching or pain, the first was more tolerable. BTW - I have never even heard of Marinol, I'll definitely research that for educational purposes. Thanks for the info!!

[Crow]

Tacoma, Washington (US)

Voters approve "CITY OF TACOMA Initiative 1"

This Initiative amends Tacoma Municipal Code Title 8 to provide that marijuana or cannabis offenses be the lowest enforcement priority of the City of Tacoma.

Yes (16,930) 64.66%

No (9,255) 35.34%

Total Votes (26,185) 100%

-----------------------------

Complete text of
Tacoma Initiative No. 1

WHEREAS, the voters of Seattle in 2003 adopted Initiative 75 relating to making enforcement of cannabis-related offenses the lowest priority for their police department and prosecutor’s offices; and

WHEREAS, the Tacoma Municipal Code contains no similar provisions; and

WHEREAS, the city council last October unofficially made an agreement, with the then-existing medical dispensaries and cooperatives, that they and their patients would not be harassed until after the Washington State Legislature had an opportunity to clarify state Initiative 692, establishing a medical cannabis distribution structure this year; and

WHEREAS, House Bill 1550 failed to make it out of committee and Senate Bill 5073 has been watered down as of the date of this petition’s filing:

Be it ordained by the voters in the City of Tacoma that:

A new ordinance is adopted and new sections of Tacoma Municipal Code Title 8 are hereby adopted:

Section 1. Findings and Intent – The voters of the City of Tacoma find that there is a compelling need to reduce the enforcement of criminal and civil penalties against the users of both medical and non-medical cannabis. This reduction will not only minimize or eliminate harassment against lawfully-consuming cannabis patients, and will have financial savings in the city’s budget.

Section 2. Subject – This Act deals with the implementation of policy relating to law enforcement. This Act is to be known as the

“REFORM CANNABIS ACT”

Section 3. Text – The police chief and city attorney shall make the investigation, arrest, and prosecution of cannabis (a/k/a “marijuana”) offenses the lowest enforcement priority, as this term may be defined in their policies and procedures manuals, for adult personal use.

Section 4. Code Provisions – New code sections 8.28.005, 8.29.005, 8.72.005, and 8.160.005 are hereby created and added to Title 8 of the TMC, each containing the language of Section 3.

Section 5. Severability – The provisions of this ordinance are declared to be separate and severable. The voters of Tacoma declare that they support each of the provisions of this Act independently, and their support for this Act would not be diminished if one or more of its provisions were to be held invalid, or if any of them were adopted by the City Council and the others sent to the voters for approval.

Section 6. Interpretation – This Act is to be liberally construed to achieve the defined intent of the voters.

-END-

[Crow]

Michigan & Washington (US)

Two more cities de-prioritize marijuana possession

Karen O'Keefe, MPP

Yesterday, voters in Kalamazoo, Michigan and Tacoma, Washington directed local law enforcement to make marijuana possession the lowest enforcement priority. The measures passed by 2:1 margins, garnering nearly 65% of the vote in Tacoma and 66% in Kalamazoo.

With only 61-66% of homicide cases in this country cleared every year, and only 12% of burglaries cleared, it’s not surprising that voters think police should have more important things to do than arresting individuals who possess a substance safer than alcohol. While crimes with actual victims went unsolved, police found time for the arrests, bookings, and court time associated with more than 750,000 marijuana possession arrests in the U.S. in 2009.

Kalamazoo and Tacoma are far from alone in directing police to find better things to do than arrest marijuana users. More than a dozen cities and counties —with a total population of over 3.3 million — have directed law enforcement to de-prioritize marijuana possession enforcement.

Congratulations to all who were involved in these sensible measures that will prevent the convictions and resulting stigmatization and heartache that can haunt people for life.

This is one more step in the turning tide. In less than a year, voters in Colorado, Washington, and possibly other states will be deciding whether to replace marijuana prohibition with regulation in their states. With 50% of Americans now supporting making marijuana use legal, we are hopeful that the first states will have opted out of prohibition by this time next year.

http://blog.mpp.org/prohibition/two-...sion/11092011/

[Crow]

Washington (US)

DEA raids Washington marijuana dispensaries in cities that set marijuana as lowest enforcement priority

Multiple news outlets are reporting DEA and local officials raiding over a dozen dispensaries in the Seattle-area counties of King, Thurston, and Pierce in Washington State.

The Olympian reports:

The Thurston County Narcotics Task Force served search warrants at five medicinal marijuana dispensaries Tuesday morning and shut them down, according to a police spokesman.

The News-Tribune reports:

Five dispensaries were targeted in Thurston County and five in Pierce County, law enforcement officials reported. So far, no arrests have been reported from the searches in Pierce and Thurston counties.

The warrants targeted locations that are suspected of not complying with state law on medical marijuana, Pierce County sheriff’s spokesman Ed Troyer said.

“The places we hit are not compliant with state law so we initiated enforcement,” he said. “There are facilities and people that are in compliance with the law that we did not hit.”

KOMO reports:

Medical marijuana activist group ‘Sensible Washington’ tells KOMO News searches have been conducted so far at Seattle Cannabis Co-op, Game Collective, Tacoma Cross, Lacey Cross and Seattle Cross among others.

KOMO News asked DEA spokeswoman Jodie Underwood if agents were serving search warrants on dispensaries in other counties as well and she acknowledged agents were serving several search warrants locally.

Remember, these raids are taking place in Tacoma, which just had an election last week on this very issue of marijuana law enforcement:

(Seattle Times) Tacoma voters easily passed citywide ballot Initiative No. 1 — the measure seeking to make “marijuana or cannabis offenses … the lowest enforcement priority” of the city.

After Tuesday night’s count, 65 percent of voters favored the measure, while 35 percent cast no votes.

And Seattle, which had made marijuana law enforcement its cops’ lowest priority in 2003 by a 58% vote:

(Seattle P-I) Since Seattle voters famously made the Emerald City a bit greener by mandating that cops mellow out when it comes to marijuana possession busts, a funny thing has happened.

Nothing. Nada. Nil. No crazy hopheads running amok with “reefer madness.” No groundswell of support to legalize the drug (at least no more than usual), and no discernible protest by law enforcement that a pro-drug message effectively has been sent — or received.

“I’d say it’s had little to no effect,” said [former] City Attorney Tom Carr, an outspoken opponent of Initiative 75, the 2003 ballot measure that directed Seattle police to make low-level pot busts their lowest priority. “And that’s good. It hasn’t been a problem. You can tell by the numbers.”

Seattle is so accepting of marijuana that the new city attorney, Pete Holmes, won’t even prosecute you for personal possession and believes marijuana should be legalized, as does the mayor, Mike McGinn. Even the Seattle City Council is unanimous in their support for medical marijuana dispensaries.

The people of Washington State don’t seem to have as much problem with marijuana as the people of Washington, D.C.

[BadAxe]

So Seattleite, we hear the argument all the time that the feds doing what they are doing in states where its legal, that its a violation of the 10th ammendment to the constitution. What is your opinion on this. Is it? And if so, do you believe the recent lawsuits in Cali will accomplish anything? Will federal level judges rule in favor of states rights?

[Crow]

So Seattleite, we hear the argument all the time that the feds doing what they are doing in states where its legal, that its a violation of the 10th ammendment to the constitution. What is your opinion on this. Is it? And if so, do you believe the recent lawsuits in Cali will accomplish anything? Will federal level judges rule in favor of states rights?

Yes, I think it is a violation of the 10th amendment. I also think that it's equitable estoppel (based on AG Holder's memo), and as the NORML lawyers have pointed out; it is also a violation of the 14th amendment given the fact that the federal government has its own medical cannabis program (Compassionate IND), and is actively trying to restrict scientific research regarding medical cannabis.

Will we win the lawsuit in California? Normally I would make the prediction, but this time I'm not sure.

The evidence is clear as day, and I can only hope the judge will side with the American people.

-------------------------------------------

One thing is certain: The cannabis reform movement is winning, and the second prohibition is slowly coming to an end. They can raid dispensaries and disrupt society, but they can't suppress the people. People are beginning to wake up and see the injustice being committed, and they have had enough.

[Crow]

Missouri (US)

Efforts underway to put cannabis legalisation on the 2012 Missouri ballot

Efforts are currently underway to put marijuana legalization on the ballot in Missouri next year. Missouri NORML and Show-me Cannabis Regulation are working together to acquire the number of signatures required to put a Constitutional amendment proposal before Missouri voters in November 2012. Missouri now joins several other states (including California, Washington, and Colorado) that are looking to put the issue of cannabis legalization before voters next election.

If you live in Missouri, and want to get involved, MO NORML and Show-me Cannabis Regulation will be holding a strategy meeting this Saturday, November 19th. For more information see the message below from Dan Viets, Missouri NORML Coordinator.

Dear Friends and Supporters of Missouri NORML:

Missouri NORML in conjunction with Show-Me Cannabis Regulation is holding a special meeting next Saturday, November 19, 2011 from noon to 6:00 p.m. at the Arts & Science building at the University of Missouri here in Columbia. this event will be a kickoff for the campaign to place marijuana legalization on the Missouri ballot in November, 2012.

We will be brainstorming ideas for how to move this campaign forward effectively and efficiently. We will be sharing ideas with our fellow activists from the state of Missouri. We will be talking with folks who have experience in similar campaigns to get their advice on how we can gather the signatures we need as quickly as possible.

SMCR has chosen to proceed with a Constitutional amendment proposal. This means we will need to gather nearly 150,000 signatures on petitions to place this issue on the ballot before next May. We will need the help of every one of our supporters to make this happen.

Following the meeting Saturday afternoon, we will hold a Dinner/Party/Fundraising event at one of Columbia’s finest restaurants. We ask everyone who attends to please bring something, large or small, which can be auctioned to help us raise funds for the campaign.

Please join us and become part of this historic effort to end the terrible injustice of cannabis prohibition in Missouri. For more information about the proposed initiative, go to www.showmecannabis.org. There is a football game in Columbia next Saturday so hotel and motel rooms will be in short supply. If you plan to stay in Columbia, you should probably search for a room immediately. You may need to look at accommodations in towns nearby since the hotels here may be full.

Sincerely,
Dan Viets, Missouri NORML Coordinator

[Crow]

Washington (US)

SeaTac Joins List of Airports Allowing Medical Cannabis Onboard

It takes a special kind of confidence to openly display your medical cannabis patient status—not to mention your medicine itself—in the face of a Transportation Security Administration airport employee. The repercussions could easily expand well beyond a missed flight. But because Tacoma resident Mike Schaef is exactly that kind of confident, we now know that patients can board planes departing from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport with their cannabis.

Schaef, who operates a medical cannabis patient collective called North End Club 420, was going through the SeaTac security line when he placed about two grams of cannabis in a bowl to be scanned. It was seized, but after just a few minutes of speaking with a handful of federal and local officials the cannabis was documented and returned, and Schaef proceeded to his flight.

He shared a photo on Facebook shortly thereafter, accompanied by a caption reading, “This is what happens when u put your meds in the scanner bowl at seatac….they let me go and gave it back…said have a nice flight….”

Steve Elliott of Toke of the Town contacted SeaTac Airport last week to ask about their policy regarding Washington medical marijuana patients boarding flights while possessing cannabis. The response: “I don’t see a problem, as long as they have a doctor’s authorization,” according to airport spokeswoman Charla Scaggs.

That would mean SeaTac joins a list that includes Bay Area airports like San Francisco International, Oakland International, and San Jose International in allowing cannabis into its terminals. A report surfacing in August 2010 also indicated medical cannabis was allowed inside Montana airports, but the current status is unclear after a Republican-controlled legislature in the state scaled back its medical cannabis laws.

-------------------------------------

Seattle Times' Northwest Voices: "Transform liquor stores into marijuana stores"

The state of Washington will be out of the liquor business by June 1, 2012, and now has a fortuitous opportunity. Consider this:

Law enforcement is devoting enormous amounts of effort, manpower and funds in a largely ineffective effort to stop marijuana use. So-called medical marijuana usage has soared, public opinion is shifting toward legalizing marijuana, crime syndicates reap large profits from marijuana sales and now former U.S. Attorney John McKay has spoken strongly in favor of legalization. [“He fought pot, now leads effort to make it legal here,” page one, Nov. 17.]

The day after the liquor stores close they could reopen as marijuana stores. Nine-hundred jobs would be saved and the state would have a new generous source of income, police efforts could be redirected to better serve the public, marijuana use would be controlled and crime profits would drop.

Of course, this would require quick, innovative and decisive action by a state Legislature not known for quick, innovative and decisive action.

— Harry Petersen, Bellevue

[Crow]

Washington (US)

"Washington's effort to legalize marijuana faces legal pitfalls"

by Gene Johnson, AP

SEATTLE -- An effort to decriminalize and tax recreational marijuana sales for adults in Washington state has won some high-profile endorsements - including from two former Seattle U.S. attorneys and the former head of the FBI here - and its sponsors are well on their way to collecting enough signatures to place the measure before the Legislature.

Supporters say it would boost funding for education and public health, and polls show a slight majority of Washington voters approve.

But Initiative 502 faces serious legal pitfalls. Not only could the federal agents raid and shut down the state-licensed pot grows and retail stores, they could ask a judge to simply throw out the entire system on the grounds that it conflicts with federal law.

And that new tax revenue, conservatively estimated at $215 million a year? The feds can almost certainly just take it, as proceeds of drug deals that remain illegal under federal law.

Whether the federal government would actually take such steps is anybody's guess - and it's what makes the effort, which is being closely watched by legalization advocates around the country, a gamble.

"This is an evolving area of the law," says Alison Holcomb, the initiative's campaign director. "We'd be foolhardy to say we think we know what's going to happen."

Initiative 502 would create a system of state-licensed growers, processors and stores, and would impose a 25 percent excise tax at each stage. Adults 21 and over could buy up to an ounce of dried marijuana; one pound of marijuana-infused product in solid form, such as brownies; or 72 ounces of marijuana-infused liquids. It would be illegal to drive with more than 5 nanograms of THC, the active ingredient of cannabis, per milliliter of blood.

Holcomb's group, New Approach Washington, is pushing the measure at a time of serious upheaval in the marijuana world, with the Obama administration pressuring states and cities that attempt to regulate the medical marijuana industry.

Federal prosecutors in California have announced a concerted effort to warn property owners that they could face sanctions if they rent to marijuana grows or dispensaries, and the DOJ has made clear that prosecuting commercial marijuana businesses remains a priority. Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee announced last month that he was suspending a system to license nonprofit "compassion centers" where people could get medical pot, out of concerns it would violate federal law. And the raids on 19 medical marijuana dispensaries by Drug Enforcement Administration agents and sheriffs' deputies in Western Washington last week served as a wake-up call about how much the feds will tolerate here.

At the same time, Washington isn't alone in considering legalizing the fun use of marijuana. Colorado will vote next year if a similar measure there makes the ballot. Supporters say that treating marijuana use as a crime has failed, and now is the time to decriminalize, tax and regulate the drug.

Whether states can get away with enacting such systems - whether they can regulate a substance that is illegal under federal law - isn't clear.

No one disputes that federal authorities have the power to enforce federal law, and thus could shut down state-licensed marijuana gardens or stores at whim, arresting the proprietors and prosecuting them in federal court.

Nor do many dispute that states have the power to decriminalize marijuana under their own laws. That's why states can "legalize" medical marijuana - they simply decide to stop prosecuting people for certain offenses. Federal authorities can't make state officials enforce federal law, and there aren't nearly enough DEA agents or assistant U.S. attorneys to keep up with all the marijuana gardens, dispensaries or patients.

The stickier issue is whether states can go beyond simple decriminalization by setting up licensing or other regulatory schemes. In such cases, rather than doing nothing in the face of federal marijuana prohibition - i.e., not prosecuting people under state law - a state would be doing something, and that something could arguably conflict with federal law. When state and federal laws conflict, the federal law wins out; it "preempts" the state law.

"Can the feds bring a challenge on preemption grounds? Yes. Will they prevail? We don't know," Holcomb says.

She says I-502 is drafted as strongly as possible to survive such a challenge. The Controlled Substances Act contains a provision saying that it will only preempt state laws that are in "positive conflict" with it - in other words, if the state law forces someone to violate federal law. I-502 doesn't do that, Holcomb says, because a citizen could comply with both laws by simply not buying, growing or selling marijuana. The licensing scheme simply helps state police determine who is complying with state law, she said.

Karl Manheim, a constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, said he tended to agree with that analysis, and two recent opinions from state appeals courts in California took the view that states can take some regulatory steps without running afoul of the federal Controlled Substances Act.

But another California appeals court ruling last month took the opposite view. It unanimously said that in addition to considering whether a state law forces someone to violate federal law, courts must also look at whether the state law "frustrates the purpose" of federal laws. The court noted that there is some question as to whether state or local officials could be liable for aiding and abetting federal crimes. The court threw out a dispensary licensing scheme in Long Beach on the grounds that it authorized people to engage in conduct at odds with the federal law, and thus frustrated the purpose of the federal law.

The Oregon Supreme Court came to the same conclusion last year in determining that that state's medical marijuana law could be preempted by federal law.

Under such a rationale, licensing schemes that already exist for medical marijuana distribution - such as in Colorado and New Mexico - would also be subject to federal preemption. But the DOJ has never made any such arguments. Some speculate it's because the distribution was for medical reasons, and trumping such laws would be more unpopular than trumping a scheme for distributing recreational marijuana.

In an interview this week, Seattle U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan declined to discuss whether she believed the Justice Department could preempt I-502.

"Every lawyer that I have talked to, including those who support the initiative, think that it will be preempted by federal law," Durkan said.

Douglas Hiatt, a Seattle medical marijuana attorney and advocate of legalization, agrees. He argues that it requires those who would apply for licenses to incriminate themselves in violation of the Fifth Amendment, that the state would be laundering money when it taxes marijuana transfers, and that the intoxicated driving limit is so strict that it would keep medical marijuana patients from driving at all.

If the parts of I-502 he considers unconstitutional were struck down, the result could be that Washington would wind up with possession of up to an ounce of marijuana being decriminalized, with no way to legally buy it, he said.

Holcomb disputes his criticism, but concedes the Justice Department almost certainly could seize any taxes collected through a "forfeiture" action - one that requires the disgorgement of proceeds of illegal activity.

Ultimately, both Holcomb and Hiatt propose legalization approaches that might be preempted by federal law. Hiatt's group, Sensible Washington, wants to first repeal all state criminal and civil penalties for marijuana in any amount. Having done that, Hiatt argues, marijuana would be totally legal under state law - and the Legislature could then pass regulations governing pot sales.

Faced with the choice between no state pot laws and whatever regulation scheme the Legislature comes up with, the DOJ would be less likely to seek to invalidate the Legislature's scheme, Hiatt argues. That's the strategy states used in knocking down the federal prohibition of alcohol in the 1920s and '30s.

But Sensible Washington's initiative has twice failed to qualify for the ballot.

Holcomb hopes the DOJ will not try to preempt I-502 - that the feds will ultimately consider its licensing and taxing scheme a lesser evil than the "wild West" of full decriminalization.

Johnson can be reached at https://twitter.com/GeneAPseattle