420 Policies and Laws

[danielan]

Admittedly the guy was a bit of an ass but the border guard was a first class dick.

A bit?

If you can't control yourself in public, these things happen to you. This guy kept escalating a situation. You do this anywhere and you will end up right where he did.

If he'd stayed civil he wouldn't have had a problem at all.

When I was traveling more, it used to be amusing to watch the "special" people, that rules don't apply to, get hauled off.

LE shouldn't be particularly thin-skinned, but I don't think they should have to take much abuse either.

Additionally, LE should not have to explain basic things like, "Sit Down" - they have a job to do and every time they have to deal with a "special" person it reduces their ability to do their jobs. Something like, "drop and give me 50" probably warrants an explanation, but "sit down", "let me talk" or "put your hands behind your back" just need to be complied with.

Foreigners do not have a "right" to enter the US. We let them enter as guests. How would you react if this ass showed up at your front door cussing and demanding entry?

You can argue the issue all you want, but if you ever get in this situation, please, be compliant, controled and respectful. The whole thing will go smoothly, you will be on your way and everyone will be happier.

If you want to make statements about policy or have academic discussions about the proper methods for controlling terrorism, etc. Do it from a distance.

[lxskllr]

Foreigners do not have a "right" to enter the US. We let them enter as guests. How would you react if this ass showed up at your front door cussing and demanding entry?

Really? you don't have a problem with some dickhead abusing authority just because he can? I didn't listen to whole thing because I was starting to get pissed, but that piece of shit's problem was he wasn't getting his ass kissed to the proper degree. Foreigners absolutely should be treated with respect when they come over here, and shouldn't be singled out for "special" treatment because some dimwit at a border crossing didn't like their tone of voice. If I were running the show up there, that guy would have been fired on the spot, and he could find a job more appropriate to his skill set. Stocking shelves after hours at WalMart would be a good career for him.

[Frosted]

ahhh - lxskllr - I thought when you said you couldn't listen to that you were disagreeing and pissed with me and didn't want to get involved in that. Oh I'll just wade right in again then lol.

[timholian]

I think the border guards were being pricks. If this was to happen to me, I may have copped the same attitude at first but as soon as they take me out of the car I would shut the hell up. I didn't hear the guy get the attitude to the degree that the border guards made out.(Nor did I hear any curse words.) However, when the police or whatever agency go to arrest you, you may want to just comply. I don't understand how pulling away from an officer is assault on the officer either but rather see iit as just resisting. Did this guy deserve to be jailed? Hell no, he was jailed because they could, not because of safety. This is just FUBAR.

[sgreger1]

It's all part of slowly conditioning you to integrate into the police state. When a cop talks to you, you are expected to act like a private in the army and just shut up and stand at ease while they talk to you. Anyone who's ever lived in a lower class neighborhood knows how sensitive the cops are down there, the slightest thing could get you an assault charge. A cop reaches to grab you and you move back to avoid it? Assault, resisting arrest. My dad caught someone breaking into our car (for the second time), he pulled out a revolver with no bullets in it that had newspaper stuffed into the barrel, but when the cops showed up they let the robber go and brutally threw my dad into a wall and they had 3 guys trying to detain him EVER THOUGH HE WASN'T RESISTING. Did it matter that it's legal to open carry and that my dad broke no actual law? No, the cops interpret the law however they want, and once they all get on board with the scam then no one rats on each other and corruption ensues from that point forward. I think this is a lot of people's objection to the AZ immegration law too. The cops are way to touchy nowadays and are on a massive power trip.

[tom502]

Right.... we know that stuff only happens in bad places like Iran.

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

That's exactly what happens when you become apathetic and complacent with your leaders.
Just wait for national I.D., automatic DNA/Blood samples for minor tickets and military checkpoints to get from your neighborhood to the mall.

Federal Government Outpaces Private Sector in Job Creation- 2010
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127628/Fe...-Creation.aspx

Colleges embrace homeland security curriculum- 2004
http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...and-usat_x.htm

+1000 This man knows his stuff. And this is EXACTLY what we get for being needle-brained, drugged-up, entertainment drenched, self centered, ignorant, overly trusting sheeple.

[texasmade]

people would take to the streets - there would be massive public outrage and civil discontent. I'd say that the police officer would even be lynched.

people in america are to pussy to do anything. We need a damn wake up call and a dose of reality. if people had riots over shit like this instead of over a f**king basketball or footbal game then we would be doing some real shit, but thanks to most of americans thinking that they can trust in the government and trust most police to "keep them safe" we have shit like this happen. Conditioned over generations to believe that a PLANT warrants this type of behavior from law enforcment, and the f**ked up thing is that there are actually people that are out there right now saying what a wonderful job those f*ck ass cops did and how horrible those parents are. Get a good riot going and show the government who REALLY runs this f**cking country. because it sure isn't a god damned suited up politician that sits on his ass.

By trying to keep you free, your law enforcement agencies are actually eroding your freedoms. I hope you can change this because once it's allowed to start, it'll get worse. It seems to me that when a law enforcement officer talks to you it is your duty to act like a lowly army recruit - or else.

which is why everytime i get pulled over and get told some bs excuse to search me or my car i make a f*cking scene, when police show up to a party or break up a fight between TWO INDIVIDUALS, especially if I am one of the ones involved I CATCH A HUGE F**KING ATTITUDE. When me and my friend were getting harrassed because of a fight that happened a street over...i went to jail that night, because they tried to put handcuffs on me without any f**king reasonable cause and i broke out f**king swing. I defy f**king authority because of my personal experiences and i know what the f*ck goes on. I DO get an attitude with law enforcement, I AM an asshole to police officers AND I WILL NOT hold my f**king tongue for any god damned person. PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE THE F**K UP.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

[danielan]

Really? you don't have a problem with some dickhead abusing authority just because he can?

I don't see the abuse of authority. He was trying to do his job, encountered attitude, and passed the situation up his chain of command. This is the guy in the booth. His job is to route you one of 2 ways (in, or secondary screening), quickly, not debate, explain, chat, etc. What I don't want is border patrol debating with schmucks with attitude problems. At a minimum it is wasteful. It is also distracting. Which can be bad.

A fun social engineering technique is to be repellent in some manner - smelly, ugly, rude, aggressive, etc to the degree people just want you away from them. I don't want that on my borders.

but that piece of shit's problem was he wasn't getting his ass kissed to the proper degree.

I agree, but I think we differ on who is the POS who wanted his posterior kissed. IMO, the border patrol just wanted to do his job. Mr. Special was defiant and argumentative, probably because he thought he was cool for recording this (which I am ok with, I'm just speculating it affected his behavior - but I could be wrong, maybe he is a POS all of the time).

shouldn't be singled out for "special" treatment because some dimwit at a border crossing didn't like their tone of voice

If you are rude and evasive, sure they should, it's a flag, like being all nervous, sweaty, etc.

And really it doesn't matter even if he was a US citizen. Next time your are in a border crossing, when you are asked if you have anything to declare say, "What does it matter?" then get all defiant and argumentative. See what happens. They are going to do their jobs. How painful it is for you depends on you.

I think if there was a failure, it was that the border guards tried to reason with him and explain things - they end up getting dragged down to his level of ignorance. He should have just been put in a holding cell then returned him to the Canadians when he refused to sit down - by this point, there was a pattern of behavior.

[WickedKitchen]

Wow. I just watched that video. That's DISGUSTING.

The guy wasn't resisting either.

I wonder what came of that in the end, if there was any aftermath or anything. I couldn't see myself being as calm as that guy was but then again I don't have a bunch of automatic weapons pointed at me. Talk about shock and awe.

The over use of force such as this should be curbed. I'd like to believe there's more to it than just the story that was published. You don't get the swat team for having the pot but you might if distribution is suspected. The warrant has to be supported by oath or affirmation and directly specify the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. A judge wouldn't sign a warrant for a zipper of weed I don't think.

[danielan]

+1000 This man knows his stuff. And this is EXACTLY what we get for being needle-brained, drugged-up, entertainment drenched, self centered, ignorant, overly trusting sheeple.

Yea, I agree, legalizing recreational drugs, IMO, does more to hurt our democracy then anything before.

If you think we're complacent now, just wait until we all have our brand new "prescriptions".

And DNA collection is getting to be a HUGE problem. Collection for even minor incidents, etc. IMO, any DNA collection prior to conviction is a huge grab by the govt.

[sgreger1]

Times, they are a changin`.


On a completely off topic in every way note, I have been studying forced labor camps lately, specifically the Nazi's. I read Mein Kamph (sp?) and am now reading "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl, which is his famous account of being in Auschwitch.

I'm reading this and i'm like, human nature is so weird. 100 guards can somehow convince a million people to, of their own free will, walk into a crematorium instead of fight back, knowing that the crematorium means certain death, and fighting back at least gives you the oppertunity to bust the lip of a guard.


I mean, the way small groups of people, usually governments, are able to controll such vastly larger numbers of free individuals is just fascinating to me. Look at Hitler, he went from some artist, who then wanted to be an architect, who then got jailed, and in but a decade after that he had taken over germany, reformed the whole country, nearly taken over the world and convinced the people of his nation to burn 6 million OF THEIR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN because of their race. WTF kind of attributes and skills must a man have to be able to start movements like that? How did a few hundred guards manage to burn all these jews, when the jews knew what was coming? They just marched in. Then some jews turned against the other jews and OPERATED THE F!CKING FURNACES IN RETURN FOR SMOKES, only to later be relieved and they themselves burned.


Humanity is such a weird thing, oppression being the most common trait amongst all forms of government.

[Bigblue1]

Watch The entire police state series of films 1-4 by Alex Jones. The most recent #4 came out last month. These things will not surprise you when you are informed. Also "Freedom to Fascism" by Aaron Russo is excellent.

[Frosted]

The problem with the border guard was that he asked a weak question which got a weak answer and it wasn't the answer that he wanted to hear. This along with the guards attitude set a ball rolling that then couldn't be stopped. Admittedly after being told to get out of the car I would have shut up. The problem was after he was asked to get out of the car a process was set in motion that couldn't be stopped. If the initial officer had asked reasonable questions and had a better attitude I feel that he would have got a better reaction from the passenger. However, the passenger knew what was going to happen which is why he was recording - this affected his attitude. There's obviously a history with border guards which is why he was recording in the first place.

In Northern Ireland the Army (me) and police had checkpoints all over the place - you could be stopped and asked these questions 3 or 4 times on your way home from work - but you were always asked the questions politely and with respect. The Army (me) and police always took abuse because it was a pain in the arse for the public - but that's the nature of a big boys job. The first border guard is a pussy who can't handle his job. Period.

They're catching 3 terrorists a day - bullshit.

[sgreger1]

In Northern Ireland the Army (me) and police had checkpoints all over the place - you could be stopped and asked these questions 3 or 4 times on your way home from work

No offense frosted, but this is exactly what I mean by "our slow decline into Europe" i mention so often. Shit like checkpoints to goto the grocery store is very nanny police state to the average american. But your right, people are always trying to provoke them, especially on videotape. Anything where the "victim" is the one videotaping himself provoking someone is questionable in my mind.