Is College A Waste Of Time And Money?

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  • wa3zrm
    Member
    • May 2009
    • 4436

    Is College A Waste Of Time And Money?

    TEC ^ |

    Are you thinking of going to college? If so, please consider that decision very carefully. You probably have lots of people telling you that an "education" is the key to your future and that you will never be able to get a "good job" unless you go to college. And it is true that those that go to college do earn more on average than those that do not. However, there is also a downside. At most U.S. colleges, the quality of the education that you will receive is a joke, the goal of most colleges is to extract as much money from you and your parents as they possibly can, and there is a very good chance that there will not be a "good job" waiting for you once you graduate. And unless you have someone that is willing to pay your tuition bills, you will probably be facing a lifetime of crippling student loan debt payments once you get out into the real world. So is college a waste of time and money? In the end, it really pays to listen to both sides of the debate.
    Personally, I spent eight years at U.S. public universities, and I really enjoyed those times.
    But would I trade my degrees today for the time and money that I spent to get them?
    Absolutely.
    Right now, Americans owe more than a trillion dollars on their student loans, and more than 124 billion dollars of that total is more than 90 days delinquent.
    It is a student loan debt bubble unlike anything that we have ever seen before, and now even those that make their living from this system are urging reform.
    When a lot of young Americans graduate from college and can't find a decent job, they are told that if they really want to "be successful" that what they really need is a graduate degree.
    That means more years of education, and in most cases, even more debt.
    But by the time many of these young achievers get through college and graduate school, the debt loads can be absolutely overwhelming...
    The typical debt load of borrowers leaving school with a master's, medical, law or doctoral degree jumped an inflation-adjusted 43% between 2004 and 2012, according to a new report by the New America Foundation, a left-leaning Washington think tank. That translated into a median debt load—the point at which half of borrowers owed more and half owed less—of $57,600 in 2012.
    The increases were sharper for those pursuing advanced degrees in the social sciences and humanities, versus professional degrees such as M.B.A.s or medical degrees that tend to yield greater long-term returns. The typical debt load of those earning a master's in education showed some of the largest increases, rising 66% to $50,879. It climbed 54% to $58,539 for those earning a master of arts.
    In particular, many are questioning the value of a law school education these days. Law schools are aggressively recruiting students even though they know that there are way, way too many lawyers already. There is no way that the legal field can produce enough jobs for the huge flood of new law school graduates that are hitting the streets each year.
    The criticism has become so harsh that even mainstream news outlets are writing about this. For instance, the following comes from a recent CNN article...
    For the past three years, the media has picked up the attacks with relish. The New York Times, in an article on a graduate with $250,000 in loans, put it this way: "Is Law School a Losing Game?" Referring to the graduate, the Times wrote, "His secret, if that's the right word, is to pretty much ignore all the calls and letters that he receives every day from the dozen or so creditors now hounding him for cash," writes the author. Or consider this blunt headline from a recent Business Insider article: "'I Consider Law School A Waste Of My Life And An Extraordinary Waste Of Money.'" Even though the graduate profiled in the piece had a degree from a Top 20 law school, he's now bitterly mired in debt. "Because I went to law school, I don't see myself having a family, earning a comfortable wage, or having an enjoyable lifestyle," he writes. "I wouldn't wish my law school experience on my enemy."
    In America today, approximately two-thirds of all college students graduate with student loan debt, and the average debt level has been steadily rising. In fact, one study found that "70 percent of the class of 2013 is graduating with college-related debt – averaging $35,200 – including federal, state and private loans, as well as debt owed to family and accumulated through credit cards."
    That would be bad enough if most of these students were getting decent jobs that enabled them to service that debt.
    But unfortunately, that is often not the case. It has been estimated that about half of all recent college graduates are working jobs that do not even require a college degree.
    Could you imagine that?
    Could you imagine investing four or five years and tens of thousands of dollars in a college degree and then working a job that does not even require a degree?
    And the really sick thing is that the quality of the education that most college students are receiving is quite pathetic.
    Recently, a film crew went down to American University and asked students some really basic questions about our country. The results were absolutely stunning...
    When asked if they could name a SINGLE U.S. senator, the students blanked. Also, very few knew that each state has two senators. The guesses were all over the map, with some crediting each state with twelve, thirteen, and five senators.
    I have posted the YouTube video below. How in the world is it possible that college students in America cannot name a single U.S. senator?...

    These are the leaders of tomorrow?
    That is a frightening thought.
    If parents only knew what their children were being taught at college, in most instances they would be absolutely horrified.

    The truth is that many of these colleges don't really care if your sons and daughters learn much at all. They just want the money to keep rolling in.
    And our college students are discovering that when they do graduate that they are woefully unprepared for life on the outside. In fact, one survey found that 70% of all college graduates wish that they had spent more time preparing for the "real world" while they were still in college.
    In America today, there are more than 300,000 waitresses that have college degrees, and close to three out of every ten adults in the United States under the age of 35 are still living at home with Mom and Dad.
    Our system of higher education is not working, and it is crippling an entire generation of Americans.
    So what do you think?
    Do you believe that college is a waste of time and money?
    If you have any problems with my posts or signature


  • lxskllr
    Member
    • Sep 2007
    • 13435

    #2
    College is a joke. A degree is largely a bought piece of paper that gives you access to the help wanted ads; an unreasonable newspaper subscription. Everyone wants a degree for positions that don't require one, and expect individuals to take up the burden of training that should be performed by the corporations.

    Comment

    • Thunder_Snus
      Member
      • Oct 2011
      • 1316

      #3
      I probably could have left school at 16 and had the maturity and know how to perform the job I have today and the job I will be looking to move into when I graduate if my employer would have offered something to train me.
      College is a nightmare, you spend one semester with a bunch of professors that don't want you to do anything and then the next semester with 5 professors who want you to devote every minute of your day specifically to their class. Overall the process is a joke.

      By the time you finish high school you should have all the base knowledge that you need in order to have an employer train you in a specific field. I didn't need to spend 1.5 hours a day 3 days a week for 2 years listening about how the Byzantine empire was really just the eastern roman empire with a different name, and at the same time a person looking to do something history related doesn't need to understand derivative equations like me.

      College is nothing but a waste of time for people who have the ability to do big things to get stuck dealing with people who want to be loud assholes all the time for 4 years. Some of us spend 10 hours a day going over material while others spend 10 hours a day in a bar with a vocabulary consisting of nothing but "bro, swag, totally yoloed, snapback) and in the end both sides get a piece of paper showing that they wasted the same amount of time for a piece of paper.

      Everytime I went to my advisor with an idea for a major they would encourage it if it required more time in school and discourage it if it would get me to graduate sooner. Colleges are no longer about promoting education, just squeezing money out of students to be taught by wack-jobs that shouldn't be allowed to manage a Dairy Queen. Every professor has their own agenda to teach you twisted realities to get you on board with their agenda. I have unfortunately had to be in the same room with "Women's Studies" majors. You can pay 40k to get taught to hate men....what a great investment.

      Germany has a good schooling system, if anyone is native to Germany they could probably explain it better than me. Norway/Sweden/Denmark offers free or almost free education because they consider it an investment in their future. Finland I'm sure is somewhere in that mix as well. Colleges in the U.S seem to just be some huge profit scheme with everyone except the students in on the action.

      Comment

      • Crow
        Member
        • Oct 2010
        • 4312

        #4
        Uni's not a waste of time if you're majoring in science (and you apply yourself to the challenges). I can't speak for other majors, but when it comes to science, it's time and money well-invested.
        Words of Wisdom

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        Premium Parrots: sounds like a freak to me
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        • Burnsey
          Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 2572

          #5
          I think your right Crow....we are educating plenty of engineers and scientists who are taking their education back to their home country, no direct benefit to us after collecting tuition........Liberal Arts people, we got plenty.

          Comment

          • piks101
            Member
            • Sep 2010
            • 691

            #6
            Well does depend on the degree. Unless science, engineering, or accounting to name the ones that come to mind, it does not seem that most degrees are worth the investment.

            Comment

            • Thunder_Snus
              Member
              • Oct 2011
              • 1316

              #7
              Originally posted by Crow View Post
              Uni's not a waste of time if you're majoring in science (and you apply yourself to the challenges). I can't speak for other majors, but when it comes to science, it's time and money well-invested.
              That's a good point crow but there are definitely better methods. If you graduated high school what would be better, going to school for 4 years in which half of your classes won't be related to what you want to do and then atleast another 2-3 classes unrelated to it as well. Or have an employer in a certain field in a certain company train you at just say minimum wage for 1.5 years. You actually are earning money instead of spending it and you are being molded to do exactly what you want to do. I just don't see the point in spending 4 years to be an accountant when someone can just teach you how to be an accounts receivable guy in 6 months and just cut out all the bullshit.

              I work for a major insurance company and their biggest gripe about new hires from the local university is that one professor there teaches things one way...another professor teaches it a different way.......and we do it a completely different way from both. If i wanted to know more about the Greek empire I would read on my own (which i do.) And if I wanted to know more about psychology i would read about it as well. But it is a huge waste of time making me take a class about it for several semesters when it is completely unrelated to what I want to do.

              I'm currently stuck in this trap for another year until graduation. All employers want to see a degree no matter what it is in and that just seems to be a huge chunk of time to say yes I have a degree when someone could have just given me minimum wage or even nothing to teach me the tricks of the trade for a few months.

              Comment

              • alopezg1
                Member
                • Jul 2013
                • 722

                #8
                certain things require a good deal of training . Medicine for example; i would feel very uncomfortable
                going in for surgery knowing that the surgeon was just going to wing it on things he'd picked up along the way
                from the people who hadn't died. Also things like architecture and civil engineering - buildings not collapsing on people
                seems to be something of importance.

                Comment

                • alopezg1
                  Member
                  • Jul 2013
                  • 722

                  #9
                  Most people just lie anyway ..... i do . I have a degree in comparative literature apparently . I went for about six weeks then
                  decided it wasn't for me . It's a permanent feature on my c.v. though .... shit , i even give myself honors

                  Comment

                  • Crow
                    Member
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 4312

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Thunder_Snus View Post
                    That's a good point crow but there are definitely better methods. If you graduated high school what would be better, going to school for 4 years in which half of your classes won't be related to what you want to do and then atleast another 2-3 classes unrelated to it as well. Or have an employer in a certain field in a certain company train you at just say minimum wage for 1.5 years. You actually are earning money instead of spending it and you are being molded to do exactly what you want to do. I just don't see the point in spending 4 years to be an accountant when someone can just teach you how to be an accounts receivable guy in 6 months and just cut out all the bullshit.

                    I work for a major insurance company and their biggest gripe about new hires from the local university is that one professor there teaches things one way...another professor teaches it a different way.......and we do it a completely different way from both. If i wanted to know more about the Greek empire I would read on my own (which i do.) And if I wanted to know more about psychology i would read about it as well. But it is a huge waste of time making me take a class about it for several semesters when it is completely unrelated to what I want to do.

                    I'm currently stuck in this trap for another year until graduation. All employers want to see a degree no matter what it is in and that just seems to be a huge chunk of time to say yes I have a degree when someone could have just given me minimum wage or even nothing to teach me the tricks of the trade for a few months.
                    I went through the same thing, i.e. taking courses that had absolutely no relevance to my major. I agree that it's a pain in the arse for degree completion (and it's also a pain on the wallet).

                    However, I opted for classes that interested me. Learning German was fun, and I loved chemistry (so much so, that I want to learn more about chems).

                    You're right in saying uni doesn't fit every career path (there are better options for those in certain occupations)... But when it comes to science/engineering, uni is the path to take.
                    Words of Wisdom

                    Premium Parrots: only if the carpet matches the drapes.
                    Crow: Of course, that's a given.
                    Crow: Imagine a jet black 'raven' with a red bush?
                    Crow: Hmm... You know, that actually sounds intriguing to me.
                    Premium Parrots: sounds like a freak to me
                    Premium Parrots: remember DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON CROW
                    Premium Parrots: not that it would hurt one bit if he nailed you with his little pecker.
                    Frosted: lucky twat
                    Frosted: Aussie slags
                    Frosted: Mind the STDs Crow

                    Comment

                    • wa3zrm
                      Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 4436

                      #11
                      The Myth of Working Your Way Through College

                      A lot of Internet ink has been spilled over how lazy and entitled Millennials are, but when it comes to paying for a college education, work ethic isn't the limiting factor. The economic cards are stacked such that today’s average college student, without support from financial aid and family resources, would need to complete 48 hours of minimum-wage work a week to pay for his courses—a feat that would require superhuman endurance, or maybe a time machine.
                      To take a close look at the tuition history of almost any institution of higher education in America is to confront an unfair reality: Each year’s crop of college seniors paid a little bit more than the class that graduated before. The tuition crunch never fails to provide new fodder for ongoing analysis of the myths and realities of The American Dream. Last week, a graduate student named Randy Olson listened to his grandfather extol the virtues of putting oneself through college without family support. But paying for college without family support is a totally different proposition these days, Olson thought. It may have been feasible 30 years ago, or even 15 years ago, but it's much harder now.
                      He later found some validation for these sentiments on Reddit, where one user had started a thread about the increasing cost per course at Michigan State University.
                      MSU calculates tuition by the "credit hour," the term for the number of hours spent in a classroom per week. By this metric, which is used at many U.S. colleges and universities, a course that's worth three credit hours is a course that meets for three hours each week during the semester. If the semester is 15 weeks long, that adds up to 45 total hours of a student's time.

                      (Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
                      If you have any problems with my posts or signature


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                      • Thunder_Snus
                        Member
                        • Oct 2011
                        • 1316

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Crow View Post
                        I went through the same thing, i.e. taking courses that had absolutely no relevance to my major. I agree that it's a pain in the arse for degree completion (and it's also a pain on the wallet).

                        However, I opted for classes that interested me. Learning German was fun, and I loved chemistry (so much so, that I want to learn more about chems).

                        You're right in saying uni doesn't fit every career path (there are better options for those in certain occupations)... But when it comes to science/engineering, uni is the path to take.
                        Yes some things are definitely worth doing in school but even then. If you want to be an engineer can't you just take the intro course then the courses after that. Instead of taking intro to engineering along with Medieval Europe, Western Roman womens literature 101-107, meteorology, and German. The whole 4 years thing just seems to be a tradition that these places try to keep in force with random shit. The classes I NEED to take to get my risk management degree is about 6 classes REQUIRED, and 2 math classes needed for 2 of those. So in total I NEED 8 classes. I could do that in 2 semesters. So why am I going to be going into my 5th year of college in August?

                        I took 4 classes a semester while working 24-30 hours a week. Gave me great balance with finances and schooling but still. Like you said crow you can always take classes that interest you, I took German, but that was an extra 800$ each semester for something I didn't need. They set up the 6 classes I need to take to be prereqs to each other so after i got done with 2 years of university wide mandatory i would need another 2-3 years just to get those 6 extra classes taken care of. And even then as they raise the price of tuition they lower the quality of professors. I had to drop my economics major when it was damn near finished because they replaced all 8 econ professors with 4 budget professors who gave most of the lecture in Greek because THEY DIDNT KNOW ENGLISH. I'm paying 10k a year to take classes i primarily don't need taught by people who don't speak one of the 1st-20th most common languages in the US. And you had to take the classes with one of the 4 greek-only speaking professors because the other 2 they hired wanted you to spend time, effort, and have the expertise of a current PHd student for a simple intro level course.
                        Last edited by Thunder_Snus; 02-04-14, 05:05 PM.

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                        • sirloot
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 2607

                          #13
                          yes

                          Comment

                          • Crow
                            Member
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 4312

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Thunder_Snus View Post
                            If you want to be an engineer can't you just take the intro course then the courses after that. Instead of taking intro to engineering along with Medieval Europe, Western Roman womens literature 101-107, meteorology, and German.
                            Mathematics is a pre-requisite for engineering, so you would need to take math as well. Physics also plays a role, so add that on. Maybe chemistry (depending on your path), but I would highly recommend taking it whether it's a requirement or not (it serves as a great lesson on precision, reactions, and other things).
                            Words of Wisdom

                            Premium Parrots: only if the carpet matches the drapes.
                            Crow: Of course, that's a given.
                            Crow: Imagine a jet black 'raven' with a red bush?
                            Crow: Hmm... You know, that actually sounds intriguing to me.
                            Premium Parrots: sounds like a freak to me
                            Premium Parrots: remember DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON CROW
                            Premium Parrots: not that it would hurt one bit if he nailed you with his little pecker.
                            Frosted: lucky twat
                            Frosted: Aussie slags
                            Frosted: Mind the STDs Crow

                            Comment

                            • squeezyjohn
                              Member
                              • Jan 2008
                              • 2497

                              #15
                              Originally posted by lxskllr View Post
                              College is a joke. A degree is largely a bought piece of paper that gives you access to the help wanted ads; an unreasonable newspaper subscription. Everyone wants a degree for positions that don't require one, and expect individuals to take up the burden of training that should be performed by the corporations.
                              That is absolutely not the case in the UK ... but I think the degrees in this country are becoming more and more like your definition.

                              The university degree system was set up as learning for the sake of learning and the betterment of knowledge for the good of the country and the world in general ... I cannot imagine how much more ignorant of the world around us we'd be as a race if it wasn't for academia and universities. It was never intended to be a piece of paper that entitled the owner to a job!

                              The problem is when you apply capitalist principles to academia then it can never function in the same way as it was intended. Every student has to "perform" and there has to be some kind of tangible recordable results seen for the money invested. The idea of having to pay for your own further education is a ridiculous way of going about things - it excludes all the academic talent from poorer backgrounds fulfilling their potential. And in the long term society loses out.

                              University should be what it was when my parents studied their degrees ... something funded by the state and only possible to get in to if you were in the top percentage of academic talent. Why? For the same reason you would expect your state to hire the best people for any other job with public money. Don't get me wrong ... I'm a massive fan of non-academic skills and crafts too - and that's what I've ended up doing for a living and no university degree could prepare you well for the majority of jobs! But when you consider that most major breakthroughs in the 20th century in science and engineering came not from results-led, sponsored positions - but as accidental consequences of learning for the sake of learning and experimentation then I predict that we're at the end of a great era.

                              That college now is a joke and a bought piece of paper to add to your resumé is a sad reflection of a purely business and money led society.
                              Squeezyjohn

                              Sometimes wrong and sometimes right .... but ALWAYS certain!!!

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