Time to send the National Guard to the US/Mexican border!

[wa3zrm]

Suddenly, I have a taste for Pierogis...in Papua New Guinea....cooked by a nice slave girl...

Is this the one?

[wa3zrm]

Or is this the one?

[Thunder_Snus]

I've lived in areas that are post mass-immigration and actively accepting immigrants. It is unfair to say that the violence is directly caused by foreign people.

Violence is almost always present where there is poverty - but it's not a national trait! If the society creates an underground by criminalising people, it reaps the violence and crime the underground needs to survive.

Spot on. But a lot of this poverty is created by thousands of people coming into an area that doesn't even have enough jobs for the people already living there.

[squeezyjohn]

Well if you live by the free market, surely the logical conclusion is that you also die by the free market! If the free market is king?

I'm off to bed ... But rest assure that I don't believe that free-market capitalism works - I truly believe that we are at the beginning of the end of this way of running our lives ... What will replace it? I don't have a clue ... But I do wish that our brightest and best were actively channeling resources to try and find a better alternative rather than scurrying around attempting to patch up terminal financial holes while our politicians smile coldly while lying through their teeth.

Believe me, immigration is the least of all our worries!

[joserra]

I find it amusing that you mocked my solution, before providing your own equally laughable solution.

Immigration is different from obesity. Securing the borders is an explicit responsibility of the US government. Making sure people don't overeat is not. It is virtually impossible to make sure that each and every American citizen only eats a certain amount of calories per day. Securing the border, and kicking out the illegal aliens already living here, is not only doable, it's the government's frickin' job.

You say below that we should get the most out of immigration (text highlighted). How would this work, exactly? Any increase in the supply of labor necessarily lowers wage rates, making the poor make even less. Always. What with the dire straights of the American lower class, I'd think preventing American jobs from being displaced would be emphasized more by our Democratic administration. Guess not.

Since no one is really entertaining the possibility of executing illegal aliens, how about 10 years of indentured servitude? That strikes me as fair.

Oh, and, one last thing: this huge influx of illegal aliens is a relatively recent phenomenon. We could buy produce beforehand, I am sure we will be able to afford it afterwards.

Well, if I had the answer to how exactly inmigration should be stopped, I wouldn't be wasting my time writing it on a forum, I would instead use it, or at least write a paper so it could be published in a respected academic journal

When I used the obesity example, I wasn't focusing on the role of the government (which I agree, it is not government's business to stop obesity whereas inmigrations is), the point I wanted to make was that a "Shoot all the inmigrant aliens (¿?)" solution is just as ridiculous and ineffective as a "Stop eating calories" one.

And yes, the cost of a bigger labor force is driving wages down, but to what extent? Depends on the labor market, You're only focusing on the costs of inmigration on the labor force (lower wages), not on the advantages (don't tell me that the economies of certain border states as California haven't benefited from these inmigrants).

You're wrong, inmigration to the US by mexicans has happened all over the XX century, not only in the last few decades.

And finally, don't forget that in the XIX century, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas belonged to Mexico and that US inmigrants eventually took it for themselves, so don't use the "inmigrant alien" argument so easily

[joserra]

And I repeat, I'm against inmigration. I don't think is fair to US citizens and they don't have to pay for the failures of another country (Mexico's stagnant economic development).

All I'm saying is that guns and more border patrol officers is not the solution. That is all

[whalen]

Damn foreigners.....! Gets my irish blood boiling!

[Burnsey]

You really want to keep the POL's... they make Pierogi's

MMMMMMMMM...Pierogi's....

Suddenly, I have a taste for Pierogis...in Papua New Guinea....cooked by a nice slave girl...

Now this thread has some redeeming value.........

[wa3zrm]

[CzechCzar]

How is that not a solution, though? My admittedly ridiculous example of shooting all illegal immigrants on sight would effectively reduce illegal immigration to zero. This tells us there is some value for enforcement where there is a limit. This tells us that increasing enforcement must reduce immigration.

And I repeat, I'm against inmigration. I don't think is fair to US citizens and they don't have to pay for the failures of another country (Mexico's stagnant economic development).

All I'm saying is that guns and more border patrol officers is not the solution. That is all

[alopezg1]

How is that not a solution, though? My admittedly ridiculous example of shooting all illegal immigrants on sight would effectively reduce illegal immigration to zero. This tells us there is some value for enforcement where there is a limit. This tells us that increasing enforcement must reduce immigration.

He is said not THE solution . It is obviously a solution

[alopezg1]

I mean genocide is a solution to overpopulation . It is a pretty effective one really , but probably not the right thing to do

[CzechCzar]

But, clearly, better enforcement (short of these hypothetical methods, obviously) WOULD fix the problem. Guns and border patrol work great.

He is said not THE solution . It is obviously a solution

[alopezg1]

I don't know I can't really speak from a well informed perspective as I don't have one' I would say however that increasing the enforcement of a law with the threat of increasing punitive force does not always seem to be entirely effective. The us government seems to have been doing that for the years with their 'war' on drugs , which seems to have resulted in vastly inflating the prison population and not much else. As for the war on terror, well I think a quick look at the news puts that to rest quite quickly. I don't know the solution but it probably doesn't have much to do with getting a bigger gun.

[joserra]

I mean genocide is a solution to overpopulation . It is a pretty effective one really , but probably not the right thing to do

Exactly

Czech: If your only argument in this discussion is that the US should shoot inmigrants on sight, then this discussion becomes worthless to me and therefore, I will not continue it.

Happy snusing