Malaysian Airlines plane crashes in Ukraine near Russian border

[wa3zrm]

Like every other country then! I don't ever see Ukraine being made part of the EU personally.

Didn't you hear? Once they become a member the government will be moved from Brussels to Kiev! :triumphant:

[joserra]

Sometimes, the world actually wants us to and expects it, due to our so called "wealth" and power. Sometimes it's in our national interest. Sometimes it's the right thing to do, and sometimes we get it wrong. The UN doesn't do much. I guess we could be isolationists, like China, but then we'd have to cut the billions of dollars in foreign aid that we've given all over the world, including Mexico.

I'm not hating on the US, in fact, I love going to the US and really admire a lot of things of it (mainly it's economy, market system and institutions, to a certain degree your culture ) But those reasons you give for the US to intervine are kind of weak. National interest? Yes, but sometimes a country's national interest doesn't justify anything ("I want your oil, it is of my national interest, therefore, I have the right to seize it"). Sometimes it's the right thing to do? Yes, but that doesn't give you the right to do something, it is as if I went to the US and attacked all the racists, is it justified on being the right thing to do? There's a reason why countries are sovereign.

Would you like if I went to the US and start imparting justice according to my moral compass and the hell with it, I have the right to do it because it's the right thing? I guess not.

And yes, the world most of the time wants you and expects from you, because of your wealth and power. But if a country or problem doesn't want you or expects from you, the validity of the intervention becomes weaker...

[Frosted]

On national interests...the interests of Russia not wanting a civil war on their doorstep thus losing its defensive interests in Crimea are completely different than intervention in Iraq or Afghanistan. Going into those countries was illegal as they were not a direct or indirect threat to the US or UK. The situation in Ukraine however has direct and serious repercussions for Russian defence.

[joserra]

On national interests...the interests of Russia not wanting a civil war on their doorstep thus losing its defensive interests in Crimea are completely different than intervention in Iraq or Afghanistan. Going into those countries was illegal as they were not a direct or indirect threat to the US or UK. The situation in Ukraine however has direct and serious repercussions for Russian defence.

If it is in fact US's National Interest, intervention is justified and if you say it is, then I believe you (as I am no expert in this topic ).

[wa3zrm]

Dutch furious after Putin’s daughter is found living in Holland

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s daughter is living with a Dutch boyfriend in the Netherlands as the country reels from last week’s jetliner missile attack by Ukrainian rebels with Russian-supplied weapons, according to reports Wednesday.
Outrage over Maria Putin’s presence in the grief-stricken country — which lost 193 citizens aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 — is fueling calls for her deportation, The Guardian reported.
Ukrainians living in the Netherlands are also planning a protest outside Maria’s apartment in the wealthy suburb of Voorschoten, outside The Hague, according to De Telegraaf newspaper.
Pieter Broertjes, mayor of the city of Hilversum, demanded the ouster of Maria, 29, during a radio interview Wednesday, as the country held a day of mourning and church bells tolled to announce the arival of the first bodies from Thursday’s plane crash.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...

[squeezyjohn]

For those of you who like conspiracy stories and cover-ups ... here's a big one ... was the Malaysian Airlines plane shot down over Ukraine actually the missing Malaysian Airlines plane from earlier in the year.

It's quite likely that the following linked story is the product of an over-active imagination, some hasty photoshopping and a lot of speculation. However ... if what the story says has some of it's facts correct ... then it is a possible explanation that something very strange has been going on.

http://worldtruth.tv/mh-17-was-in-fa...flight-mh-370/

Make up your own minds

[Frosted]

My first instinct was that Ukranian troops shot down the plane...given past actions. I still point my thoughts at the Ukranians. Russian troops, even giving allowance for the vast number, are too well trained for a simple 'accident' like this....or ex Russian troops now mercenaries.

[Frosted]

Whatever...it stinks.

[Viktorfm]

Whatever...it stinks.

+1....

[Viktorfm]

Well..Want to add some words. I see many clever and wise people here, hope you can understand situation quiet well. Please don`t believe this goddamned news. During a war all news are lies. I am from Saint Petersburg(Russia) and so can see all propaganda that we receive from Russia and US.I cant say nothing about this situation..I admit even that Russia government is in cahoots with US. For example to restore the military branch..It doesn`t matter. Awful thing that we have a war. When war is not far from you, it seems to be real, not a kind of TV war in a distant galaxy. Yesterday, I made a call to my relatives who live not far from Lugansk(Ukraine)..They were sitting in a cellar because of bombings. Many people died, hope the are alife. All soldiers on this war are mercenaries, dont want to mention countries..And please don`t think that Putin is very popular in Russia.Everybody is frightened and there is nothing to do with this dictatorship.People are not bears drinking kgb vodka.. etc. Make snus not war.

[Frosted]

In Bosnia we had reporters from various newspapers embedded with us. Every single word they reported was a lie...apart from the fact we were there. I have detested and ignored journalists ever since.The world is getting to be a very small place so events abroad can have a huge impact at home. I don't think that people living in peaceful countries today understand that tomorrow they could be called up under conscription to be slaughtered on some battlefield. They certainly didn't when events happened in Sarajevo 1914. It is always normal people like you or I, your children or mine that pay the price.

[alopezg1]

In Bosnia we had reporters from various newspapers embedded with us. Every single word they reported was a lie...apart from the fact we were there. I have detested and ignored journalists ever since.The world is getting to be a very small place so events abroad can have a huge impact at home. I don't think that people living in peaceful countries today understand that tomorrow they could be called up under conscription to be slaughtered on some battlefield. They certainly didn't when events happened in Sarajevo 1914. It is always normal people like you or I, your children or mine that pay the price.

I would have thought that if a major conflict were to happen tomorrow there would be no need for conscription and the battle would be fought with nuclear weapons, in which we case we would all still die , but from the comfort of our -melting- homes