Did you remember to turn your clock forward?

[TBD]

Judge, figure out how to disarm criminals, who by definition break the law, and we'll talk. Australia outlawed most guns and still have a higher murder rate than the US, likewise England, per capita.

My guns are a defense against a tyrannical government first, second to defend my family against criminals snapping and killing them or worse. Third I enjoy hunting and target shooting. My Constitutional right to own a weapon has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting.
You are right you have a right to life, criminals DO NOT have a right to deny that. But criminals really don't give a crap about your rights. So far outlawing certain activities have not decreased those activities. Smoking dope is illegal, people on this forum state plainly that they do. Do you wish to ban all marijuana? How's that working for you? Are you really naive enough to believe that banning guns would change anything, except to make it worse? Chicago and DC have a total ban on guns, and both still annually rank in the top 10 most violent cities. Ok DC doesn't have a total ban anymore, but that just changed in the last 6 months.

[ShaulWolf]

Jersey has some of the roughest gun control laws. I'll point out Camden and Newark. While Newark's homicide rate dropped in 2008, Camden went up and is 2nd in the nation for highest crime rate.

On to a personal note. I used to drive back home to Jersey from El Cid. That's a 14 hour drive, give or take a couple hours, from Charelston, SC to Milford, NJ using I-95. Not exactly too fun to do on your own. One trip I stop at a rest station to use the bathroom. Another guy comes in and uses the stall next to me. Bad vibe immediately. Guy is 6' 0" at least, a good four inches taller, and at least 50 lbs more muscle. He's eyeballing me. Definitely a bad vibe. I finish up and leave, and he's behind me by around 10 paces. I grab the Ka-Bar from my bag and get into a fighting stance. 165 lbs male, high and tight, USMC hoodie, looks like he can fight. While I'm not in the Marines yet, it looked convincing enough. He stops dead in his tracks and runs away. Not a gun, but it did the job, and I was damned (extremely damned) lucky. Personally, I'd have preferred to have a .45 in my hands so I'd never have to let him close to defend myself.

Or my friend, who I'll call Shaun. Same story, driving up I-95 for winter break. Stops at a rest stop late at night during the trip and is being tailed by someone who has an edge on him physically. He gets back to his car and draws his 1911. The guy he drew on had a knife, but was definitely outgunned. He turns tail and Shaun makes it back home. Glad he never had to pull the trigger, and glad he made out of that one just fine.

I think that's argument enough.

[kum]

Americans are weird.

[kum]

On to a personal note. I used to drive back home to Jersey from El Cid. That's a 14 hour drive, give or take a couple hours, from Charelston, SC to Milford, NJ using I-95. Not exactly too fun to do on your own. One trip I stop at a rest station to use the bathroom. Another guy comes in and uses the stall next to me. Bad vibe immediately. Guy is 6' 0" at least, a good four inches taller, and at least 50 lbs more muscle. He's eyeballing me. Definitely a bad vibe. I finish up and leave, and he's behind me by around 10 paces. I grab the Ka-Bar from my bag and get into a fighting stance. 165 lbs male, high and tight, USMC hoodie, looks like he can fight. While I'm not in the Marines yet, it looked convincing enough. He stops dead in his tracks and runs away.

no offense, but id'd say he thought you're some kind of a crazy paranoid ****.

[Condor]

Most criminals are not armed. Those that are usually do not intend to use them. However, they WILL use them in self-defense.

OK, I'm going to try to be calm about this....


What do you do for a living, cause Im going to have to call bullshit on this one.
Ever been shot at or have a gun pointed at you? Ever have to comfort your buddy after he was forced to shoot and kill a felon that was about to shoot him? Ever respond to an armed robbery or an aggravated assault where people are shot/stabbed/etc.? Where people shoot each other over dope? Or carjackings, or kidnappings with these poor peaceful criminals? Sure, they dont even usually carry weapons....and certainly arent willing to use them. Well, I have to live with those images in my head because they do carry weapons, and are more than willing to use them. How many criminals do you know that gave you this little chestnut of wisdom? Based on my 7 years of experience at doing what I do, I can confidently proclaim that YOURE LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD.
Im going to refrain from writing 6 pages on here, because part of me thinks you are just trying to get a rise out of folks- and cant possibly be that naive. Are we living in the same country? We are at war, and you need to wake up brother comrade. Flush that Lenin schlock out of your brain.

[ShaulWolf]

Condor, you're law enforcement, aye? How many robberies turn ugly with an armed robber? And kum, I'm hoping you're not just trolling here, since your other posts were cool. But when you've got a guy eyeballing you the entire time you're in a bathroom and walks out right after you do something's not right. Call me a paranoid ****, I'll take that as a compliment in this case. I say I avoided getting raped and robbed.

[Condor]

I am, but im not a patrol type, and Im not uniformed and all of that.


Look, I think we are getting away from the core of WHY we have the right to bear arms. It is not against robbers/junkies, etc. It's far more important than that. It's so, if the time comes, we can rise against ...oh..I dunno...a tyrannical gov't. (we arent there yet????!)

My parents are Hungarian. My grandparents had to flee your awesome buddy Commie's (I'm assuming youre a fan, Faust, from your avatar) iron fist in about 1955/56 (before the revolution). And I gotta tell you thats no society I would want to live in. Man...the stories growing up...

We have all seen the redneck with the bumper sticker on his truck "An armed man is a citizen, and unarmed man is a subject" Well....it's true.

[MrAbstracto]

Condor:
Between your avatar and your posts in this thread i think i have a man-crush on you. ops:

[Sal1000us]

Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subject peoples to possess arms. So let's not have any talk about native militias." (Hitler's Secret Conversations, 1941-44, Farrar, Strauss and Young, 1953)

Mao Tse Tung: "All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The
communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." (Problems of War and Strategy, Nov 6 1938, published in "Selected Works of Mao Zedong," 1965)

Diane Feinstein: "US Senator, If I could have banned them all- 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' -I would have!" (Statement on TV program 60 Minutes, Feb 5 1995)

[Condor]

no offense, but id'd say he thought you're some kind of a crazy paranoid ****.

I don't know about you Shaul, but I have worked damned hard to cultivate that image. :wink:

Man crushes are ok, just know that I am trained to spot the differences in "good touch" and "bad touch".

[ShaulWolf]

Hell, most guys just avoid me. Jackie says I just have that look of someone not to mess with usually. Especially around her. No one messes with my darlin'. Though her shepherds do more than an ample job.

You are right in your previous post, Condor, and Sal illustrates the point very well. The entire point of an armed citizenry is to have the ability to take up arms against a government that has become oppressive. That's the biggest reason for the 2nd Amendment. Next came being able to have a well armed militia in times of need. I think now the right to bear arms has extended to protecting oneself in extreme circumstances. No, I don't think everyone should have a gun, that'd be foolish. But I do think it should be an option to those who want it, haven't committed a felony, are of age, and are responsible with a weapon. Saved my friend's ass, and I'll be damned if anyone tries to convince me otherwise.

[Old Frothingslosh]

Right on, Condor!

[Judge Faust]

Opinion respected, but I don't agree with it.

1. If I were to snap and go on a rampage not having a gun wouldn't stop me. If I were to really set my mind to it a knife would suffice, or if I wanted mass carnage a home made bomb. Hell, I could just burn a building down full of people and really do some damage then.

2. Children, teens, and whoever else snap are in the same position as number 1. If they're really set on killing someone, they'll do it. Firearms makes it easier, yes. I'd say having the weapons secured better might cut that down, but someone set on murdering will murder.

3. Criminals who want weapons will find weapons. There's enough of them worldwide to trickle in illegally to be bought without stealing them. I'll refer to #1 as well, that a knife could just as easily be used, and often are. stealing a gun is just one way of doing it.

1 and 2: absolutely not true. Do you suppose that it is just as easy to kill a person with a knife as it is with a gun? Look at the human anatomy - all of your vital organs are protected by some pretty strong bone structures. Knifes rarely pierce bones; bullets do it all the time. Add to this the fact that firearms, unlike bladed weapons, can be used from a distance.

Hell, I don't know why I even have to explain this to you, since you're in the armed forces... If you must go into combat, would you rather use bullets or a bayonet? Which do you think would be more effective?

3: very common argument among gun activists. Also very erroneous. Do you really think that criminals have guns illegally smuggled into the country? Do you realize just how dangerous and costly this is?

Well over 99% of all firearms in the hands of criminals started out as perfectly legal guns. So how do criminals acquire them? Easy: they buy them or steal them. There is a direct correlation between gun ownership and gun crimes - the fewer guns in the hands of civilians, the fewer people end up shot.

[Judge Faust]

Australia outlawed most guns and still have a higher murder rate than the US, likewise England, per capita.

What a great argument for gun ownership! Well, it would be, if you were right....

Murder rate per 100,000 people:

US = 5.7
UK = 2.03
Australia = 1.28

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

[Judge Faust]

Most criminals are not armed. Those that are usually do not intend to use them. However, they WILL use them in self-defense.

OK, I'm going to try to be calm about this....


What do you do for a living, cause Im going to have to call bullshit on this one.
Ever been shot at or have a gun pointed at you? Ever have to comfort your buddy after he was forced to shoot and kill a felon that was about to shoot him? Ever respond to an armed robbery or an aggravated assault where people are shot/stabbed/etc.? Where people shoot each other over dope? Or carjackings, or kidnappings with these poor peaceful criminals? Sure, they dont even usually carry weapons....and certainly arent willing to use them. Well, I have to live with those images in my head because they do carry weapons, and are more than willing to use them. How many criminals do you know that gave you this little chestnut of wisdom? Based on my 7 years of experience at doing what I do, I can confidently proclaim that YOURE LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD.
Im going to refrain from writing 6 pages on here, because part of me thinks you are just trying to get a rise out of folks- and cant possibly be that naive. Are we living in the same country? We are at war, and you need to wake up brother comrade. Flush that Lenin schlock out of your brain.

What do I do for a living? I practice law, especially the criminal variety. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I am not in any form brainwashed or living in a "dream world." Yes, I am a Communist, but that's hardly relevant to the topic at hand.

The rest of your argument is meaningless. No, I have not yet gotten shot or been particularly close to a person that had recently been shot. I have no intention to do either - that's why my profession is law, not law enforcement. As mentioned earlier, I do not have a problem with police officers packing heat while on active duty. I do not advocate taking YOUR guns away; my only problem is with civilian gun ownership.