Did you remember to turn your clock forward?

[Judge Faust]

How about 5,000,000 gun- toting patriots? The US military would not fire cruise missiles on American soil. Think of the collateral damage.

Collateral damage? Really?

Hmmm... when the southern states democratically elected to secede from the Union not too long ago, the north did not seem to be too concerned about "collateral damage." You have a very rosy picture of your own government there...

Your beloved soviet army couldn't beat a relatively small group of afghani rebels in ten years.

To be fair, the Afgnani terrorists were armed, trained, and otherwise supported by your beloved United States. They were not a band of self-made patriots.

Still, I agree that that whole war was a terrible idea. Of course, this had not deterred the US from getting into the same quagmire. Sigh.

I find it intellectually dishonest that you idolize Stalin, Lenin and Trotsky , while demonizing the American government , specifically Bush, for doing the same thing. I guess like all those who share your political leanings you believe it matters who is doing the damage.

I object.

Firstly, I "idolize" Lenin and Trotsky - I am lukewarm at best about Stalin.

Secondly, intent matters. Hate Stalin if you wish, but it is undeniable that he was always concerned about the wellbeing of his people. Emperor Bush II, on the other hand, cared about no one except Big Oil and his own private vendetta against President Hussein.

If you like communism so much feel free to move to a communist country, say Cuba or China. Facisim has a lot more in common with communism/socialism than it does democracy. National Socialists is the true name of the NAZI party.

I would love to move to Cuba. Unfortunately, your own beloved government will not allow me to do so. Who's trampling on who's rights now?

China, on the other hand, is a real possibility - one which I am currently exploring. As soon as they find a position for an American-trained lawyer, you can bet your ass that I'll be there in a heartbeat...

[tom502]

Personally, I favor gun control, and think our current system is all wrong. That said, I believe if you are a citizen, and you legally purchase your firearms, and register them, you should be allowed to have anything, machine guns, bazookas, etc. The problem we have here in the US, is the glut of illegally aquired guns, guns used in crime, youth with guns, and those offenders I believe should be given extremely harsh sentences, like 30 years hard labor camp(not like we even have those). But honest citizens should be free to own guns, but criminals should be shown zero tolerance. My opinion.

Tom

[Coffey]

by clinical standards I am mentally unstable...not crazy just lacking of most emotions...i own guns,i shoot guns,ive been trained to kill,do you see me going on a ****ing rampage...no

Er... so you are an insane anarchist killer with guns... No offense, but yes, I can certainly see you going on a rampage. If you were my client, I certainly wouldn't put much effort into keeping you out of prison. Or a mental institution.

Once again, since I only have your words to base my opinion upon, I may be wrong. But the way you present yourself makes you seem like a clear menace to society. I would think twice before leaving any children or small animals in your general vicinity...

I would love to know which law school you went to. I can't imagine any legitimate law school telling it's students that a Straw Man is a legitimate way to win an argument. Further, you should be well aware that the "statistics" you referenced earlier(the ones from wikipedia) wouldn't be allowed even in a 100 level community college class. I'm sure you're one hell of a lawyer.

[Coffey]

Does anyone else find it ironic that some people here feel that they can have their argument both ways? I mean this, certain people have been calling Bush an idiot for getting us into Iraq, while at the same time saying that there is no way the American people could take on the Government. Isn't this exactly what we've learned from Iraq? If you are fighting for something you feel strongly enough about, you can put up a helluva fight even against the best military in the world.

[Premium Parrots]

Seriously, let this thread die in peace. please

[Dead Rabbit]

"Hate Stalin if you wish, but it is undeniable that he was always concerned about the wellbeing of his people."

I had to cut, paste and then read it again. And again.

It's surreal, really.

[NonEntity]

"Hate Stalin if you wish, but it is undeniable that he was always concerned about the wellbeing of his people."

I had to cut, paste and then read it again. And again.

It's surreal, really.

I have to agree there Rabbit. I have strong opinions in the whole gun control thread but learned long ago that you are not going to change minds on an internet forum.

But as a student of history I found it interesting that anyone who claimed to quote facts and statistics could make that statement about Stalin. 7 million Ukrainian dead would beg to differ about Stalin's concern for their well being.

NonEntity

PS: For the progun crown, quit wasting time arguing on the internet, find an undecided friend or acquaintance, and take them target shooting. You will accomplish far more for the cause and lower your need to snus to counter stress considerably.

[ShaulWolf]

Please just let the thread die. The horse has been beaten, dragged by a pickup, run over by a bulldozer, and torn apart limb from limb. It's time to let it rest now.

[Dead Rabbit]

Please just let the thread die. The horse has been beaten, dragged by a pickup, run over by a bulldozer, and torn apart limb from limb. It's time to let it rest now.

you're being ironic, right?

[Judge Faust]

by clinical standards I am mentally unstable...not crazy just lacking of most emotions...i own guns,i shoot guns,ive been trained to kill,do you see me going on a ****ing rampage...no

Er... so you are an insane anarchist killer with guns... No offense, but yes, I can certainly see you going on a rampage. If you were my client, I certainly wouldn't put much effort into keeping you out of prison. Or a mental institution.

Once again, since I only have your words to base my opinion upon, I may be wrong. But the way you present yourself makes you seem like a clear menace to society. I would think twice before leaving any children or small animals in your general vicinity...

I would love to know which law school you went to. I can't imagine any legitimate law school telling it's students that a Straw Man is a legitimate way to win an argument. Further, you should be well aware that the "statistics" you referenced earlier(the ones from wikipedia) wouldn't be allowed even in a 100 level community college class. I'm sure you're one hell of a lawyer.

I find it ironic that your response to the alleged flaws in my argument boil down to an ad hominem attack. You do not think well.

If you are going to reject my statistics and citations as bogus, at least take the time to show us a better alternative. Failing that, at least show why my authorities are wrong ("wouldn't be allowed even in a 100 level community college class" is intellectually lazy, not to mention juvenile and rhetorically ineffective). You're just blowing a lot of hot air at this point.

[Judge Faust]

"Hate Stalin if you wish, but it is undeniable that he was always concerned about the wellbeing of his people."

I had to cut, paste and then read it again. And again.

It's surreal, really.

I have to agree there Rabbit. I have strong opinions in the whole gun control thread but learned long ago that you are not going to change minds on an internet forum.

But as a student of history I found it interesting that anyone who claimed to quote facts and statistics could make that statement about Stalin. 7 million Ukrainian dead would beg to differ about Stalin's concern for their well being.

I started out as a "student of history" as well, before I went down the JD route.

Assuming that you refer to the Golodomor, here is my advice: keep studying the facts. Go beyond the textbooks. Look at the REAL statistical data.

You might be surprised to find out that the famine was the result of the complex ramifications of the socio-economic realities of the Revolutionary period rather than a dastardly Bolshevik conspiracy.

Or you may simply choose to swallow what the first-year global history textbooks feed you hook, line, and sinker... Sadly, I would bet on the latter.

[Judge Faust]

Does anyone else find it ironic that some people here feel that they can have their argument both ways? I mean this, certain people have been calling Bush an idiot for getting us into Iraq, while at the same time saying that there is no way the American people could take on the Government. Isn't this exactly what we've learned from Iraq? If you are fighting for something you feel strongly enough about, you can put up a helluva fight even against the best military in the world.

This is actually the best of the recent responses. It required a bit of contemplation on my part, for which I salute you.

Having said that, I have pinpointed the flaw in your reasoning.

No one here is denying that, given enough popular support the masses CAN take on their government. To wit: the British Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution, the Iranian Revolution, the... You get the point. We can go on and on, ad nauseum.

No, the point is that a true people's revolution requires, well... the people. If you have enough people on your side, you win more or less by default. What does NOT come into this equation is the firepower of said people.

Why? Once again: (1) in any modern nation, the vast majority of the weaponry is controlled by its armed forces. (2) A truly popular revolution will subvert the armed forces. (Conclusion): A popular revolution will control most of the nation's firepower, and hence will prevail.

This is what we have seen in Iraq. The brave freedom-fighters have been able to garner enough popular support to gain access to a great many of the nation's arsenals. Hence, the freedom-fighters are on the verge of victory.

Can the same happen in the American Empire? Of course. And if it does, it will be because the people have been able to gain the military's support - NOT because the people have a lot of hunting rifles. That is just silly.

[Dead Rabbit]

"Hate Stalin if you wish, but it is undeniable that he was always concerned about the wellbeing of his people."

I had to cut, paste and then read it again. And again.

It's surreal, really.

I have to agree there Rabbit. I have strong opinions in the whole gun control thread but learned long ago that you are not going to change minds on an internet forum.

But as a student of history I found it interesting that anyone who claimed to quote facts and statistics could make that statement about Stalin. 7 million Ukrainian dead would beg to differ about Stalin's concern for their well being.

I started out as a "student of history" as well, before I went down the JD route.

Assuming that you refer to the Golodomor, here is my advice: keep studying the facts. Go beyond the textbooks. Look at the REAL statistical data.

You might be surprised to find out that the famine was the result of the complex ramifications of the socio-economic realities of the Revolutionary period rather than a dastardly Bolshevik conspiracy.

Or you may simply choose to swallow what the first-year global history textbooks feed you hook, line, and sinker... Sadly, I would bet on the latter.

Dude, you're obviously a smart guy. And I'm sure the whole "dungeon and dragons" fantasy-identity that you have created with you're blatant embrace of communism serves it's purpose as a rebellious but intellectual "self". To a certain extent, I'm sure we all adopt identities. Fair enough.

But, my glimpses of the unfathomable torture dished out to millions of people by order of Stalin really isn't from a textbook. They come from the teary eyes of my grand parents. I swear you can learn more from looking into someones eyes then you can ever learn from books or for that matter, internet forum battles that I am just as guilty as the next guy of, on occasion, joining.

To excuse Stalin is just as reptilian and irrational as denying the Holocaust.

My Grandparents are gone now. However, I just had a conversation at Christmas with my brother's wife's Grandma from the Ukraine. She actually ended up in two concentration camps: Russian and German. She said the Russian one was even worse. I asked her if this was because of debate between the Germans themselves over the utility of using Ukrainians against the Soviets. I don't think she understood what I was talking about. lol. Long story short: I could see the pain in her eyes when she talked about the atrocities dished out by the Soviets.

[Xobeloot]

So really.

Who was the ****tard that decided to turn a thread with a humorous video into this crap.

Shut the **** up already. Fighting on the internet is such serious business!

[Xobeloot]

and XOBE, check out:

www.zombietargets.net

I just ordered my Zombie hunting permit sticker