A question for anyone living in Sweden, about socialism

[sgreger1]

Hey this question is for those of you who live in sweden or any other country which would be considered a socialist country.

I want your honest opinion, see, as a result of our new laedership it has become very apparent that we are moving towards socialism int he USA and away from our roots, so I have a question.

Do those of you who live in socialised countries like your healthcare system etc. What other type of "social programs" are prevalent in your society and how well do you think they work.

:?:

[Condor]

I don't live in Sweden, but Im sure I have very strong feelings on this. :wink:

Most of my family still lives in Hungary, and they f'ing hate it, and say we are nuts for letting them "do this to you"

[sgreger1]

It just seems that while capitalism does have little snaggs here and there, a free market is the only thing that produces innovation.

Never under government directive did Einstein postulate the theory of relativity, never did a government appointed CEO revolutionize the automobile industry like Ford.

Why should the middle class and rich have to be forced to pay for the poor? We went to school, worked hard at our jobs, all while raising families, why do freeloaders who have the same oppertunity I had feel like I owe them something for nothing?

Meanwhile, today in California the sales tax rate just raised to 9.25%, almost 10$ out of every 1000$ you spend. Car registration is doubling, its gonna cost me almost 500$ to get the tags for my motorcycle. Im going to be taxed for every mile I drive, for carbon tax, an energy tax, cigarettes and tobacco products just increase in tax about a dollar. When will it end???

Its like Atlas Shrugged over here right now, why cant our eladers see that this does not work well in other countries, why do we think it would solve our problems here in the US, which was BUILT ON THE BACK OF CAPITALISM!

[Grim]

Because Capitalism isnt working in the modern era.

Im not for changing either but America has become a joke to the rest of the world and thats pretty sad.

If our Government would stop outsourcing jobs, making back-room deals and lying straight to the faces of tax payers then maybe we could turn this country around but itll never happen..... main reason i never watch the news.

Pretty sad that a comapny such as Wal-Mart was founded on American Made and now u would be hard pressed to find something in Wal-Mart that is even made in America.

America is killing itself thanks to its leaders.

[sgreger1]

Capitalism is still the best model, we just need to regulate it a little. I m ABSOLUTELY against outsourcing, its probably the single worse thing for this country along with illegal immegration. But making a socialist country where we slowly bleed out the rich to support the poor, and the middle class STILL remains ****ed is stupid. Under obama "rich" is a household making $250k between 2 people, not actually that high, in california that will barely get you a house, 2 cars, and private school for your kids with maybe some money to save for college.

We dont need to redistribute the wealth, jsut heal the system by which wealth is made.

We have a government warranties on our GM cars now, and the president just FIRED the ceo of a PRIVATE company, we have congress retrospectively TAKING MONEY that was legally earned, and owed to them by a legal binding contract just because congress felt they didnt deserve the money.
Now tim Geithner is getting power to retroactively decide the salary of ANY employee (not just execs) that works at a comany which has recieved government money.

[sgreger1]

AND THEY KEEP TAXING MY DAMN TOBACCO TO PAY FOR SOCIALIST HEALTH CARE SCHEMES!!!!!! Thats why I hope snus is never sold in the USA, it will destroy the freedom I feel when i buy a can for 3$ shipped from ACROSS THE WORLD.

[Eidekker]

I'm not so good with politics or economical theories really, and this is just my personal feeling about welfare and high taxes..




It's nice to have a "free"education, "free" healthcare and "free" meals for kids in schools, but many would rather take that money in their pockets and decide to pay for services privately.



EU is a nightmare as it seems to be just an updated version of the old communist regime.

[sgreger1]

It's nice to have a "free"education, "free" healthcare and "free" meals for kids in schools, but many would rather take that money in their pockets and decide to pay for services privately.

EU is a nightmare as it seems to be just an updated version of the old communist regime.

Sums up my opinion on the subject completely. I would rather have lower taxes and kep more of my money, pay for healthcare, and decide who I want to donate to, where I want my kids to go to school, what they eat etc.

EU is communism with a smile, America is going to start the North American Union between USA, Canada, and Mexico soon according to Obama.

WORST IDEA EVER...

[Eidekker]

First of all, most leftists will use the USA as the measure of laissez faire capitalism. We all know that this is completely false, so I won't go into detail refuting this casuistry here but I'd like to point several things out: Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland, and Australia were all rated as "more free," according to the Heritage Index of Economic Freedom.

It would probably be better to compare these Scandinavian nations to Hong Kong or Ireland than to the United states.

Furthermore, Scandinavian nations are not nearly as socialist as leftists claim they are. Although the United States ranks higher than these nations on the Index of Economic Freedom, Scandinavian nations are more free in several decisive areas.

Denmark has greater business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, freedom from corruption, and labor freedom while having comparable property rights and trade freedom scores to the U.S.

Sweden has greater business freedom and freedom from corruption, while having comparable trade freedom, monetary freedom, property rights enforcement, investment freedom, and financial freedom to the United States.

Finland has greater business freedom, monetary freedom, and freedom from corruption than the United States, while having comparable property right enforcement, financial freedom, and trade freedom.

Norway, the least successful Scandinavian nation, has greater freedom from corruption than the United States while having comparable business freedom, trade freedom, and property right enforcement.

Iceland has greater business freedom, fiscal freedom, and freedom from corruption, while having comparable trade freedom and property right enforcement.

In many ways, Scandinavian countries are more "laissez faire" than the United States.

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/5616/113334.aspx

[Starcadia]

Pure Capitalism is not the best model, because it brings out the worst in humans (we are social animals, and Capitalism forces too much individualism, which goes contrary to productivity, balance, peace, cooperation, and so on). Pure Socialism in not the best model either, because it's too idealistic and goes contrary to human nature. The best model is something in between pure Capitalism and pure Socialism, which is where the U.S. is fortunately heading.

Sweden is not purely Socialist, and is in many ways more Capitalistic than the United States. Its tendency towards innovation is quite high, although, like all political structures, it has its problems. However, it does not have a massive third-world gap between rich and poor like the U.S. has, its people are healthier, increasingly taller, living longer, and has left the average American far behind in terms of education.

[Eidekker]

Sums up my opinion on the subject completely. I would rather have lower taxes and kep more of my money, pay for healthcare, and decide who I want to donate to, where I want my kids to go to school, what they eat etc.

Exactly.

I've had a few debates about the useless and harmful development aid to third world countries, now taken straight from our pockets as taxes, 1 Billion USD worth a year. Most of it goes to arms deals and keeping the tribe leaders fat and stocked with Mercedes-Benz..

None of the good doers who support this aid were ready to test a system where people could voluntarily pay for the aid organizations instead of taking it as taxes. I bet they coudn't raise even a 100 million a year of it together that way..

[sgreger1]

Exactly.

I've had a few debates about the useless and harmful development aid to third world countries, now taken straight from our pockets as taxes, 1 Billion USD worth a year. Most of it goes to arms deals and keeping the tribe leaders fat and stocked with Mercedes-Benz..

And in a time of recession our president is raising taxes, spending us into trillions in debt (right after criticizing the last administration for spending to much, Obama responds by trippling spending), and we just gave close to a billion dollars to Palestine (read as Hamas). What kind of strategy is this???

And I dont feel like going to the DMV for my routine physical, because it will be that breadline type of service if it is socialised. Judging by the governments track record, they can barely deliver the mail let alone run my hospitals, schools, donations, higher education etc.

[sgreger1]

Pure Capitalism is not the best model, because it brings out the worst in humans (we are social animals, and Capitalism forces too much individualism, which goes contrary to productivity, balance, peace, cooperation, and so on). Pure Socialism in not the best model either, because it's too idealistic and goes contrary to human nature. The best model is something in between pure Capitalism and pure Socialism, which is where the U.S. is fortunately heading.

Sweden is not purely Socialist, and is in many ways more Capitalistic than the United States. Its tendency towards innovation is quite high, although, like all political structures, it has its problems. However, it does not have a massive third-world gap between rich and poor like the U.S. has, its people are healthier, increasingly taller, living longer, and has left the average American far behind in terms of education.

How hard is it to move to Sweden and get employed? LOL

[madgar]

The U.S. needs socialized medicine badly. Even when I got my medical insurance through work (which cost me $112/month) I had to pay over $30k out-of-pocket when I had to have surgery. Last year the company dropped the medical insurance all together and decided to give $120/month towards buying your own policy. Thanks to this I now have to pay $236/month for even worse insurance than I had before. I am definitely in the upper-middle class, but if I was to have to have surgery or have an accident in the next few years I would be financially screwed. Capitalism has clearly failed in this respect. I would gladly pay an extra few percent in taxes to not have this worry.

[sgreger1]

The U.S. needs socialized medicine badly. Even when I got my medical insurance through work (which cost me $112/month) I had to pay over $30k out-of-pocket when I had to have surgery. Last year the company dropped the medical insurance all together and decided to give $120/month towards buying your own policy. Thanks to this I now have to pay $236/month for even worse insurance than I had before. I am definitely in the upper-middle class, but if I was to have to have surgery or have an accident in the next few years I would be financially screwed. Capitalism has clearly failed in this respect. I would gladly pay an extra few percent in taxes to not have this worry.

I feel your pain but, think about it. Lets say you have a procedure which costs you 20k$. Right now, its your procedure so you have to pay. Under socialized healthcare, that ammount has to be distributed amongst all taxpayer ( thats not fair because its not their surgery, they are basicly paying and not recieving a service), but what about the guy who has cancel and spends amillion dollars on meds/procedures, all the people who will not go in for ever cough and sneeze because it has the illusion of being free. Now, instead of paying for your 20k$ surgery, you are sharing the coast with people who have even higher blls than that, so there is no guarantee that you wont be paying MORE than you would have if you just paid FOR YOUR OWN INJURIES. IMO


I think we need health insurance reform, but me (a healthy person who ses the doctor maybe twice a year) should NOT have to front the bill for your surgery, I should not have to pay for illegals to get free healthcare.

And I will not.