A question for anyone living in Sweden, about socialism

[sgreger1]

Plenty of people work to pay thier way through college while making payments on a car and eating ramen, no one deserves an education, having an education is a privlege, not a right.

Nah, man. The only way any country is going to flourish is to get quality education to as many people as possible. The pen is mightier than the sword, always has been, always will be. The USA since WWII has been largely operating by the sword, and is therefore failing in almost every way that matters. We're increasingly fat, unhealthy, lazy, stupid, greedy and individualistic. Educated people generally don't let these things happen to themselves or their families.

Yes education is the msot important things because the more scientists and inventions etc we have the more money our country will make.

However, how do we go about this? We have already socialized the public school system and it is largely failed, in the Los Angeles School district where I live we give them a 10 billion dollar bond every time the ballot comes around for years but it never gets better.

I had no locker due to a lack of availability untill 10th grade, I had photocopies of books since they couldnt afford to buy the actualy books for history and math. (which is illegal I would imagine)

The thing is that the private sector always performs better and more efficiently, and results in better quality outcome of whatever service is in question.

We should abolish upblic schools, and allow school vouchers where the gov money will instead pay for you to go to private schools. Helps everyone all around, eliminates beaurocracy etc.

WE ALL AGREE WE NEED REFORM AND NEW SOLUTIONS, BUT SOCIALISM IS NOT THE FIRST THING WE SHOULD LOOK AT AS IT DOES NOT WORK ESPECIALLY NOT IN COUNTRIES LIKE AMERICA.

[Eidekker]

I once read a lengthy thesis in finnish on Distributism, and as a system that is kind of in between of capitalism and sosialism, it made sense at the time.

Has anyone heard of it? Opinions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

[chainsnuser]

I'm not living in Sweden, but I've read some of the biggest nonsense ever in this thread.

Nobody should be so dumb to confuse socialism with a welfare-oriented system. If socialism and welfare are the same, then the U.S.A. is the most socialistic country of all time (long before Obama, who for sure will rather (have to) reduce the welfare than add to it).

Socialism is neither the political system of Sweden nor another country in nowadays' Europe, it was instead the system of the old Soviet Union. Nobody in the Soviet Union owned a house, he could not afford, nobody drove a car he could not afford, nobody sent his children to schools, he could not afford ... and nobody payed taxes, BTW.

I pay 10 times more into the Social Security System of Germany than I (hopefully) ever get back - and I have no problem with that fact, because if I ever get seriously ill and cannot work anymore, I will get the best medical treatment and I will simply not starve to death.

There are "freeloaders", but for every freeloader there are 10 good people who add to the society and deserve everything they eventually receive back.

The U.S.A. on the other side is living on an unbelievable degree of welfare. The country as a whole consumes 2 or 3 times more than it produces. I know for sure that 90% of my own money, that is not consumed but invested on a bank-account, is used to finance some poor **** in the U.S.A. to "own" a house, he cannot afford or to finance unnecessary tax-exemptions and subventions for rich people in the U.S, tax-exemptions and subventions the U.S. cannot really afford.

The problem as a whole really is quite difficult, but If there's one thing I absolutely cannot understand, than if U.S.-citizens think that Europe is "socialistic". Put away your own garbage first!

Cheers!

[sgreger1]

I'm not living in Sweden, but I've read some of the biggest nonsense ever in this thread.

Nobody should be so dumb to confuse socialism with a welfare-oriented system. If socialism and welfare are the same, then the U.S.A. is the most socialistic country of all time (long before Obama, who for sure will rather (have to) reduce the welfare than add to it).

Socialism is neither the political system of Sweden nor another country in nowadays' Europe, it was instead the system of the old Soviet Union. Nobody in the Soviet Union owned a house, he could not afford, nobody drove a car he could not afford, nobody sent his children to schools, he could not afford ... and nobody payed taxes, BTW.

I pay 10 times more into the Social Security System of Germany than I (hopefully) ever get back - and I have no problem with that fact, because if I ever get seriously ill and cannot work anymore, I will get the best medical treatment and I will simply not starve to death.

There are "freeloaders", but for every freeloader there are 10 good people who add to the society and deserve everything they eventually receive back.

The U.S.A. on the other side is living on an unbelievable degree of welfare. The country as a whole consumes 2 or 3 times more than it produces. I know for sure that 90% of my own money, that is not consumed but invested on a bank-account, is used to finance some poor **** in the U.S.A. to "own" a house, he cannot afford or to finance unnecessary tax-exemptions and subventions for rich people in the U.S, tax-exemptions and subventions the U.S. cannot really afford.

The problem as a whole really is quite difficult, but If there's one thing I absolutely cannot understand, than if U.S.-citizens think that Europe is "socialistic". Put away your own garbage first!

Cheers!

I understand your frustration but I think you have your terms confused. The soviet union was communism. Socialism is where we all pay reallyhigh taxes and get lots of social programs like gov healthcare, schools, welfare, food stamps, unemployment, gov housing for poor (section eight), banks ran by gov, major corporations ran by gov.

Communism is where the gov owns everything and rations it out to you,a nd is usually under some level of dictatorship.

We are very socialist in America, however that is not how we started out.
Socialism is wealth redistribution where your taxed and the gov decides who gets that money, and communism is where the gov owns your porperty and everything and ISSUES it to you.

I agree what the banks did in america with loans was retarded, but the rest of your facts arent too solid.

We are a welfare state, and welfare is a byproduct of socialist concepts of redistribution of wealth.

[Grim]

sgreger1,

I meant no offense.

I was simplty ASSUMING you were in a great financial state, if you were then congrats man. I have nothing against you.

You got to understand man, when it comes to good debates i love getting involved and if I sound like an ass then just take it with a grain of salt, I mean nothing personal.

Thats why I love this forum, all the different views.

I love all the different views of this debate.

I think if we combined everything everyone has said so far we all might learn something :wink:

[chainsnuser]

I understand your frustration but I think you have your terms confused. The soviet union was communism.

Certainly not. Communism is only a philosophical construct, a paradise-like condition of a future-society, where eveybody lives free and in prosperity, predicted by Karl Marx.

The Soviets knew quite well how far away they were form that. The correct term for the Soviet political system was "really existing socialism". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_socialism

The social security systems in Europe are partly influenced by socialistic ideas, no doubt, but they are in fact also a product of Christian traditions of solidarity, and most welfare-systems in Europe have been founded by conservatives. I think it's just not right to call European countries "socialistic" just for having functioning welfare-systems.

Besides of that, I know what you mean, of course.

Cheers!

[superdevil]

One thing I've noticed about socialism: to most Americans, it's common knowledge that the majority of EU countries are Socialist, but to most Europeans, they equate Socialism with Communism, and are therefore offended with the typical American view of their governing rule.

Why the stigma/indignation when the "S" word is mentioned? Or are the American and European definitions of Socialism so different that there is a reason to be on the defense?

[chainsnuser]

Or are the American and European definitions of Socialism so different that there is a reason to be on the defense?

They are different enough to be defensive.

The political system of Germany is called "Soziale Marktwirtschaft" (Social market economy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy . It's not socialistic (or communistic) at all, but intended to produce a functioning economy of free enterprise instead.

Cheers!

[sgreger1]

I think there is a huge difference in what others think when they hear socialism and when i say it I think I mean something different.

Im just saying that in America, we should stick to the constituion. bottom line. That allows the fed gov to run about 20 things, everything else handled on the staete level. Then you have different states with different laws and you live when yuo like the laws.

If you into guns and conservative priciples, live in texas, if you like gay pride parades than san francisco (or if you like smoking weed legalyl). And thats how it is today for the most part, but I see that we are slipping.

I can't even carry a firearm in california, law or not they will bust you if you have it and you have to spend thousands in court to get the charge dropped.

I think we have forgotten our roots.

[sgreger1]

Or are the American and European definitions of Socialism so different that there is a reason to be on the defense?

They are different enough to be defensive.

The political system of Germany is called "Soziale Marktwirtschaft" (Social market economy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy . It's not socialistic (or communistic) at all, but intended to produce a functioning economy of free enterprise instead.

Cheers!

Yah Hitler rised to power on the socialist workers someshit party, but when he got in it was definately not socialism. I agree we gotta have some social programs, but I spend hundreds a check on social security (of which i will never see a dollar), and we got 1 in 10 americans on food stamps according to a new report. i know 1 in 10 americans can get a meal 3 times a day without the gov, they just take advantage.
And healthcare? Try going to the ER while there are a million illegals there because they know the hospital has to treat them.

[sgreger1]

sgreger1,

I meant no offense.

I was simplty ASSUMING you were in a great financial state, if you were then congrats man. I have nothing against you.

You got to understand man, when it comes to good debates i love getting involved and if I sound like an ass then just take it with a grain of salt, I mean nothing personal.

Thats why I love this forum, all the different views.

I love all the different views of this debate.

I think if we combined everything everyone has said so far we all might learn something :wink:

lol, no offense taken man, im the same way, especially about politics. Thats why I dont debate people face to face cause ill end up mollywhopping someone in their ****in jaw if I get too heated about proving my side lol. Like a REAL American ahahah :twisted:

[blotgode]

Summary from Sweden; Born free taxed to death :evil:

[slartie]

Being from Denmark, and now living in Sweden, I have a keen insight in what's going on in both countries, politically. However, having read this thread in its entirety I belive it prudent for me to just ignore this thread, or I will end up alienating most everybody present. Some things are correct, some things are blatantly ignorant, others are unfounded speculation.

I hereby officially consider this thread read and subsequently ignored on my part.

Keep on keepin' on.